Discussion:
OT - Thought for the day
(too old to reply)
Cliff
2007-12-24 08:36:32 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:48:33 -0800 (PST), "Shat T. Cat"
Get them into the health care system too.
Why? Of course, I am one of those people who believe everyone
should pull their own weight or go some place else.
So you want gramps, the kids & anybody not wealthy dead?
Well people cost society a great deal less than sick ones.
They can even be productive. Rather sick people rarely are.
And, once very ill, fixing costs a lot & often fails even after
all the expense.
That's a rather easy viewpoint to expouse when you are one of the younger,
healthier ones. Si submit that your perspective will change as you get
older and your health declines.
IMHO, we, as a society have a responsiblility to provide some care for
those unable to care for themselves.
Not even for all of the insured it seems:
http://www.presstelegram.com/ci_7784048
" .. The death of the teen came just hours after Cigna Healthcare - which had
twice removed her from liver-transplant lists, saying the surgery was
experimental - .."

And CIGNA is expensive (but very profitable indeed)!! I used to be
covered with them.

"Cigna CEO H. Edward Hanway “netted $26.1 million in total compensation,”"

"The compensation for the Cigna CEO, as large as it was, didn't even compare
with 'compensation' of the CEO of United Healthcare. That CEO, William W.
McGuire (Petulant Plutocrat of the Year), received $525 million in
'compensation', a couple of years ago."
--
Cliff
Jerry Foster
2007-12-24 22:12:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:48:33 -0800 (PST), "Shat T. Cat"
Get them into the health care system too.
Why? Of course, I am one of those people who believe everyone
should pull their own weight or go some place else.
So you want gramps, the kids & anybody not wealthy dead?
Well people cost society a great deal less than sick ones.
They can even be productive. Rather sick people rarely are.
And, once very ill, fixing costs a lot & often fails even after
all the expense.
That's a rather easy viewpoint to expouse when you are one of the younger,
healthier ones. Si submit that your perspective will change as you get
older and your health declines.
IMHO, we, as a society have a responsiblility to provide some care for
those unable to care for themselves.
http://www.presstelegram.com/ci_7784048
" .. The death of the teen came just hours after Cigna Healthcare - which had
twice removed her from liver-transplant lists, saying the surgery was
experimental - .."
And CIGNA is expensive (but very profitable indeed)!! I used to be
covered with them.
"Cigna CEO H. Edward Hanway "netted $26.1 million in total
compensation,""
Post by Cliff
"The compensation for the Cigna CEO, as large as it was, didn't even compare
with 'compensation' of the CEO of United Healthcare. That CEO, William W.
McGuire (Petulant Plutocrat of the Year), received $525 million in
'compensation', a couple of years ago."
--
Cliff
I doubt there are many who read this newsgroup (RCM, to be specific, since
this
thing is cross-posted all over the place) who are under 30. Most of us are
in our
50s, 60s or 70s. We came of age, i.e., went to high school and, more to the
point,
became old enough to understand our parents' ideals, attitudes and, most
important,
finances in the immediate post World War II era. It was a time of optimism
and, for
a while, a very individualistic materialism that later turned into a, some
would say,
extreme and over-optimistic) social consciousness. It was then that we
formed our
basic ideas of how the world works and, of course, how we think it should
work.

We came to believe that medical care was just that: the maintenance of
one's health
and the care of the sick. Some of us came to believe it was a personal
responsibility,
others, that society (i.e., the government) was responsible. But,
regardless, it was
about caring for peoples' health.

But, more recently, a new paradigm has emerged. Health care is no longer an
essential service. It has become a commodity to be traded upon for the
purpose of
bringing wealth to those who are successful.

And, by wealth and the successful, I'm not talking about the highly skilled
physician
who saves many lives a year and lives in his mansion on the hill. One
presumes he
earned it.

I mean those who are successful in the financial machinations that bring
great profit
off the backs of patients and doctors alike.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see, but most of us have no
problem
seeing the insurance companies who are most happy to sell their "product" to
the
young and healthy while shoving out the sick and the old. The better the
insurance
executives are at doing this, the greater their pay and bonuses. And we see
the
drug companies spending millions to develop and market drugs that they
expect
will prove popular (often, they create a demand where there is no real
need...).
But Big Pharma has absolutely no interest in developing and marketing drugs
which
may be essential to the lives of some, but will not meet the profit
standards set
down by the corporate executives who then, of course, collect huge pay and
bonuses.

Some years back, a highly successful and quite wealthy banker, aghast at the
unmitigated greed of some of his fellows, asked, "How the hell many yachts
can you water-ski behind at a time, anyhow?"

But the super-rich (as opposed to the merely successful and wealthy) got
where
they are by stomping on anyone they see as weaker. What the hell do we
expect?

The secret to the success of the United States lies in the "wisdom" of our
Founding
Fathers. But they were not the noble and egalitarian men our grade school
teachers
led us to believe. In reality, many of them were a conniving bunch who,
with good
reason, didn't trust each other and so, they constructed a government which
would
protect themselves from one another. In doing so, they did a pretty good
job of
protecting us as well.

Time and time again, the super-rich have tried, with varying degrees of
success, to
commandeer the government and turn it to their own ends. And every time
they have
more or less been successfully rebuffed.

So, the question becomes a simple one: Do we allow the few super-rich to
win this
for-real Monopoly game and make themselves like the nobility of the middle
ages,
controlling all wealth, property and means of production and leaving the
rest of us to
a squalid, impecunious peasantry? Or do we work toward a fair society which
both allows everyone to enjoy the fruits of their labors (which includes
allowing the
more successful among us to become reasonably wealthy), while observing that
basic responsibility of a society which gives it its legitimacy: the
protection of its
weakest members?

And a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all...

Jerry
cavelamb himself
2007-12-24 23:39:28 UTC
Permalink
snipped long winded whine about the evils of wealth .?.?.
Do we allow the few super-rich to win this
for-real Monopoly game and make themselves like
the nobility of the middle ages, > controlling all wealth,
property and means of production and leaving the rest of us to
a squalid, impecunious peasantry?
Or do we work toward a fair society which
both allows everyone to enjoy the fruits of their labors (which includes
allowing the more successful among us to become reasonably wealthy),
while
observing that basic responsibility of a society which gives it
the protection of its weakest members?
And a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all...
Jerry
Suffering from male PMS, Jerry?

That cranky time of the month when the credit card bills come in?

:)

Merry Christmas, Jetty!

And a happy new year !
Monika Krug
2008-01-05 14:28:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Foster
I doubt there are many who read this newsgroup (RCM, to be specific, since
this thing is cross-posted all over the place) who are under 30.
o/
Post by Jerry Foster
Most of us are in our
50s, 60s or 70s. We came of age, i.e., went to high school and, more to the
point, became old enough to understand our parents' ideals, attitudes and, most
important, finances in the immediate post World War II era. It was a time of optimism
and, for a while, a very individualistic materialism that later turned into a, some
would say, extreme and over-optimistic) social consciousness. It was then that we
formed our basic ideas of how the world works and, of course, how we think it should
work.
We came to believe that medical care was just that: the maintenance of one's health
and the care of the sick. Some of us came to believe it was a personal responsibility,
others, that society (i.e., the government) was responsible. But, regardless, it was
about caring for peoples' health.
But, more recently, a new paradigm has emerged. Health care is no longer an
essential service. It has become a commodity to be traded upon for the
purpose of bringing wealth to those who are successful.
And, by wealth and the successful, I'm not talking about the highly skilled physician
who saves many lives a year and lives in his mansion on the hill. One presumes he
earned it.
I mean those who are successful in the financial machinations that bring great profit
off the backs of patients and doctors alike.
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see, but most of us have no problem
seeing the insurance companies who are most happy to sell their "product" to the
young and healthy while shoving out the sick and the old. The better the insurance
executives are at doing this, the greater their pay and bonuses. And we see the
drug companies spending millions to develop and market drugs that they expect
will prove popular (often, they create a demand where there is no real need...).
But Big Pharma has absolutely no interest in developing and marketing drugs which
may be essential to the lives of some, but will not meet the profit standards set
down by the corporate executives who then, of course, collect huge pay and bonuses.
Some years back, a highly successful and quite wealthy banker, aghast at the
unmitigated greed of some of his fellows, asked, "How the hell many yachts
can you water-ski behind at a time, anyhow?"
But the super-rich (as opposed to the merely successful and wealthy) got where
they are by stomping on anyone they see as weaker. What the hell do we expect?
The secret to the success of the United States lies in the "wisdom" of our Founding
Fathers. But they were not the noble and egalitarian men our grade school teachers
led us to believe. In reality, many of them were a conniving bunch who, with good
reason, didn't trust each other and so, they constructed a government which would
protect themselves from one another. In doing so, they did a pretty good job of
protecting us as well.
Time and time again, the super-rich have tried, with varying degrees of success, to
commandeer the government and turn it to their own ends. And every time they have
more or less been successfully rebuffed.
So, the question becomes a simple one: Do we allow the few super-rich to win this
for-real Monopoly game and make themselves like the nobility of the middle ages,
controlling all wealth, property and means of production and leaving the rest of us to
a squalid, impecunious peasantry? Or do we work toward a fair society which
both allows everyone to enjoy the fruits of their labors (which includes allowing the
more successful among us to become reasonably wealthy), while observing that
basic responsibility of a society which gives it its legitimacy: the
protection of its weakest members?
And a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all...
Nice posting.

You couldn't, like, run for president or something?

Happy New Year,
Monika.
--
Every time you reboot, God kills a kitten.

E-mail address is valid until 4 weeks after the expiration date. Use
@arcor.de instead.
Gunner
2008-01-05 18:43:18 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:28:03 +0100, Monika Krug
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Jerry Foster
So, the question becomes a simple one: Do we allow the few super-rich to win this
for-real Monopoly game and make themselves like the nobility of the middle ages,
controlling all wealth, property and means of production and leaving the rest of us to
a squalid, impecunious peasantry? Or do we work toward a fair society which
both allows everyone to enjoy the fruits of their labors (which includes allowing the
more successful among us to become reasonably wealthy), while observing that
basic responsibility of a society which gives it its legitimacy: the
protection of its weakest members?
And a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all...
Nice posting.
You couldn't, like, run for president or something?
Hummm...where have I heard that before...hummm

"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his
needs." Karl Marx


oh yah...thats where.

No wonder Monica kisses his sneakers.

Gunner
Monika Krug
2008-01-06 02:39:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Hummm...where have I heard that before...hummm
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his
needs." Karl Marx
You, instead, prefer that those who can't get a job that pays well
enough to die of hunger or illness.

Monika.
--
Every time you reboot, God kills a kitten.

E-mail address is valid until 4 weeks after the expiration date. Use
@arcor.de instead.
Sean
2008-01-06 02:59:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Gunner
Hummm...where have I heard that before...hummm
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his
needs." Karl Marx
You, instead, prefer that those who can't get a job that pays well
enough to die of hunger or illness.
Monika.
Yes, now fuck off you stupid bint!
Cliff
2008-01-06 14:34:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sean
Yes, now fuck off you stupid bint!
Nothing at all to contribute?
Any idea what it's about?
New account at aioe.org?
--
Cliff
Gunner Asch
2008-01-06 06:23:52 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:39:54 +0100, Monika Krug
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Gunner
Hummm...where have I heard that before...hummm
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his
needs." Karl Marx
You, instead, prefer that those who can't get a job that pays well
enough to die of hunger or illness.
Monika.
It pretty much depends on WHY they cant get a job that pays well
enough.

If they are lazy fuctards, let em die
If they are handicapped for reasons other then their own stupidity,
thats what charity is for.

Most people would be able and willing, to donate to charities, if the
State would let them keep more of their own money.

Most good charities have far better track records of making sure the
end user gets help, than do any government program.

So its simply pissing the vast majority of it away if you let the
Government handle the money.

But then..Communists think the Government owns all the money.

Gunner
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-06 06:46:45 UTC
Permalink
shes aginna blow capn
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:39:54 +0100, Monika Krug
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Gunner
Hummm...where have I heard that before...hummm
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his
needs." Karl Marx
You, instead, prefer that those who can't get a job that pays well
enough to die of hunger or illness.
Monika.
It pretty much depends on WHY they cant get a job that pays well
enough.
If they are lazy fuctards, let em die
If they are handicapped for reasons other then their own stupidity,
thats what charity is for.
Most people would be able and willing, to donate to charities, if the
State would let them keep more of their own money.
Most good charities have far better track records of making sure the
end user gets help, than do any government program.
So its simply pissing the vast majority of it away if you let the
Government handle the money.
But then..Communists think the Government owns all the money.
Gunner
arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Gunner Asch
2008-01-06 10:47:20 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:46:45 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
shes aginna blow capn
Which captain are you gonna blow?

Highschool football team?

Gunner
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-06 11:04:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:46:45 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
shes aginna blow capn
Which captain are you gonna blow?
Highschool football team?
you should make peace with your inner child molestor
grasshopper

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Gunner Asch
2008-01-06 18:42:40 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:04:14 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:46:45 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
shes aginna blow capn
Which captain are you gonna blow?
Highschool football team?
you should make peace with your inner child molestor
grasshopper
If I had one, Id off him.

"obviously things can be adapted"
Mariposas the Hopeless Fucktard


Gunner
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Bob Brock
2008-01-06 19:19:06 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 10:42:40 -0800, Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:04:14 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:46:45 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
shes aginna blow capn
Which captain are you gonna blow?
Highschool football team?
you should make peace with your inner child molestor
grasshopper
If I had one, Id off him.
You have to admit that you do post an awlful lot of homosexual and
child sex fantasies.
Post by Gunner Asch
"obviously things can be adapted"
Mariposas the Hopeless Fucktard
Gunner
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Cliff
2008-01-07 11:51:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Brock
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 10:42:40 -0800, Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:04:14 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:46:45 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
shes aginna blow capn
Which captain are you gonna blow?
Highschool football team?
you should make peace with your inner child molestor
grasshopper
If I had one, Id off him.
You have to admit that you do post an awlful lot of homosexual and
child sex fantasies.
Is it his inner child?
--
Cliff
Bob Brock
2008-01-07 17:30:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Post by Bob Brock
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 10:42:40 -0800, Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:04:14 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:46:45 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
shes aginna blow capn
Which captain are you gonna blow?
Highschool football team?
you should make peace with your inner child molestor
grasshopper
If I had one, Id off him.
You have to admit that you do post an awlful lot of homosexual and
child sex fantasies.
Is it his inner child?
Possibly. I'm still waiting for his inner adult to manifest.
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-06 20:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:04:14 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:46:45 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
shes aginna blow capn
Which captain are you gonna blow?
Highschool football team?
you should make peace with your inner child molestor
grasshopper
If I had one, Id off him.
it helps that you realize such thoughts are not healthy
but these violence on yourself is not the way to get better

its about self control not self loathing

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
sittingduck
2008-01-06 22:03:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
it helps that you realize such thoughts are not healthy
but these violence on yourself is not the way to get better
its about self control not self loathing
An old Cherokee chief told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside
people. He said, “My son, the battle is between two wolves. One is Evil–it
is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt,
resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego.

The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility,
kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.”

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked, “Grandfather,
which wolf wins?” The old Cherokee chief simply replied, “The one you feed.”
--
http://improve-usenet.org
DaveG
2008-01-07 00:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
If I had one, Id off him.
it helps that you realize such thoughts are not healthy but these
violence on yourself is not the way to get better
its about self control not self loathing
It's just his Buddhism trying to get out.
--
Climate Change may be raising the sea levels, but the gene pool
seems to be drying up.
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-07 01:22:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by DaveG
Post by Gunner Asch
If I had one, Id off him.
it helps that you realize such thoughts are not healthy but these
violence on yourself is not the way to get better
its about self control not self loathing
It's just his Buddhism trying to get out.
everyone knows buddhists and atheists cannot be moral persons
mike huckabee told me so it must be true
(would a republican ever lie)

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Gunner Asch
2008-01-07 02:22:28 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 17:22:50 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by DaveG
Post by Gunner Asch
If I had one, Id off him.
it helps that you realize such thoughts are not healthy but these
violence on yourself is not the way to get better
its about self control not self loathing
It's just his Buddhism trying to get out.
everyone knows buddhists and atheists cannot be moral persons
mike huckabee told me so it must be true
(would a republican ever lie)
Im a very ethical person, but hardly "moral" as defined by Judeo
Christian standards.

You however..are simply a Hopeless Fuctard.


"obviously things can be adapted"

Mariposas the Hopeless Fucktard

Gunner
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-07 03:43:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
Im a very ethical person, but hardly "moral" as defined by Judeo
Christian standards.
since -ethics- can be defined as whatever you want it to be
your claim says nothing

so what do you think about huckabee and romney saying you cant be a real american
because youre not a christian
Post by Gunner Asch
You however..are simply a Hopeless Fuctard.
do you even know what the eightfold way is?

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Gunner Asch
2008-01-07 10:41:40 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:43:51 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
Im a very ethical person, but hardly "moral" as defined by Judeo
Christian standards.
since -ethics- can be defined as whatever you want it to be
your claim says nothing
Hardly. Ethics can hardly be "nothing". They are always "something"

Tiny box..very tiny box..nano box
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
so what do you think about huckabee and romney saying you cant be a real american
because youre not a christian
Post by Gunner Asch
You however..are simply a Hopeless Fuctard.
do you even know what the eightfold way is?
Of course I do. Damned shame you dont, so now you are going to cut
and paste them from some web source.
But feel free, it cant hurt to have them posted again.

Now about that hole punch again?

Gunner
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
DaveG
2008-01-07 10:48:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:43:51 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
Im a very ethical person, but hardly "moral" as defined by Judeo
Christian standards.
since -ethics- can be defined as whatever you want it to be your claim
says nothing
Hardly. Ethics can hardly be "nothing". They are always "something"
No one claimed that ethics are nothing. That only happened inside your
head.
--
Climate Change may be raising the sea levels, but the gene pool
seems to be drying up.
Gunner Asch
2008-01-04 18:49:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by DaveG
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:43:51 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
Im a very ethical person, but hardly "moral" as defined by Judeo
Christian standards.
since -ethics- can be defined as whatever you want it to be your claim
says nothing
Hardly. Ethics can hardly be "nothing". They are always "something"
No one claimed that ethics are nothing. That only happened inside your
head.
I see your reading comprehension issues are as yet, unresolved.

You really need to work on it.

Gunner
DaveG
2008-01-07 22:49:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by DaveG
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:43:51 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
Im a very ethical person, but hardly "moral" as defined by Judeo
Christian standards.
since -ethics- can be defined as whatever you want it to be your claim
says nothing
Hardly. Ethics can hardly be "nothing". They are always "something"
No one claimed that ethics are nothing. That only happened inside your
head.
I see your reading comprehension issues are as yet, unresolved.
You really need to work on it.
LOL, yeah, right. Just keep on believing that, boy.
--
Climate Change may be raising the sea levels, but the gene pool
seems to be drying up.
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-07 11:50:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
do you even know what the eightfold way is?
Of course I do. Damned shame you dont, so now you are going to cut
why do you reject it
Post by Gunner Asch
and paste them from some web source.
saves you whining about -cites-

interesting
youre set up to whine about cites if you dont get what you want
or you whine about cut and paste if you get what you dont want

basically youre going to whine no matter what
its not about cites
its about you being shown a fool
Post by Gunner Asch
But feel free, it cant hurt to have them posted again.
It is Not Mind, It is Not Buddha, It is Not Things

A monk asked Nansen: `Is there a teaching no master ever preached
before?'

Nansen said: `Yes, there is.'

`What is it?' asked the monk.

Nansen replied: `It is not mind, it is not Buddha, it is not
things.'

Mumon's Comment: Old Nansen gave away his treasure-words. He must have been
greatly upset.

Nansen was too kind and lost his treasure.
Truly, words have no power.
Even though the mountain becomes the sea,
Words cannot open another's mind.

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Cliff
2008-01-08 11:20:32 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 03:50:39 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
interesting
youre set up to whine about cites
Give him a few & enter his claimed killfiles ..

Bad news that does not agree with his winger-lies .. shoot
the messenger & poke head even deeper under outhouse.
--
Cliff
Gunner Asch
2008-01-07 02:21:08 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:44:50 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:04:14 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:46:45 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
shes aginna blow capn
Which captain are you gonna blow?
Highschool football team?
you should make peace with your inner child molestor
grasshopper
If I had one, Id off him.
it helps that you realize such thoughts are not healthy
but these violence on yourself is not the way to get better
Those that commit violence to my person may or may not live to regret
their actions.
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
its about self control not self loathing
Something you obviously are seriously lacking in the first part, and
have an overabundance of the second.

Sad really..actually, pathetic.


"obviously things can be adapted"

Mariposas the Hopeless Fucktard
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-07 03:47:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
Those that commit violence to my person may or may not live to regret
their actions.
Right Action
The second ethical principle, right action, involves the body as natural means
of expression, as it refers to deeds that involve bodily actions. Unwholesome
actions lead to unsound states of mind, while wholesome actions lead to sound
states of mind. Again, the principle is explained in terms of abstinence: right
action means 1. to abstain from harming sentient beings, especially to abstain
from taking life (including suicide) and doing harm intentionally or
delinquently, 2. to abstain from taking what is not given, which includes
stealing, robbery, fraud, deceitfulness, and dishonesty, and 3. to abstain from
sexual misconduct. Positively formulated, right action means to act kindly and
compassionately, to be honest, to respect the belongings of others, and to keep
sexual relationships harmless to others. Further details regarding the concrete
meaning of right action can be found in the Precepts.

Right Livelihood
Right livelihood means that one should earn one's living in a righteous way and
that wealth should be gained legally and peacefully. The Buddha mentions four
specific activities that harm other beings and that one should avoid for this
reason: 1. dealing in weapons, 2. dealing in living beings (including raising
animals for slaughter as well as slave trade and prostitution), 3. working in
meat production and butchery, and 4. selling intoxicants and poisons, such as
alcohol and drugs. Furthermore any other occupation that would violate the
principles of right speech and right action should be avoided.
Post by Gunner Asch
Something you obviously are seriously lacking in the first part, and
have an overabundance of the second.
Sad really..actually, pathetic.
Right Speech
Right speech is the first principle of ethical conduct in the eightfold path.
Ethical conduct is viewed as a guideline to moral discipline, which supports the
other principles of the path. This aspect is not self-sufficient, however,
essential, because mental purification can only be achieved through the
cultivation of ethical conduct. The importance of speech in the context of
Buddhist ethics is obvious: words can break or save lives, make enemies or
friends, start war or create peace. Buddha explained right speech as follows: 1.
to abstain from false speech, especially not to tell deliberate lies and not to
speak deceitfully, 2. to abstain from slanderous speech and not to use words
maliciously against others, 3. to abstain from harsh words that offend or hurt
others, and 4. to abstain from idle chatter that lacks purpose or depth.
Positively phrased, this means to tell the truth, to speak friendly, warm, and
gently and to talk only when necessary.
Post by Gunner Asch
"obviously things can be adapted"
i guess youre adapting buddhism

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Gunner Asch
2008-01-07 10:43:07 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:47:11 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
"obviously things can be adapted"
i guess youre adapting buddhism
Of course.

Thats why there are at least 6 different "schools" of buddhism.

Many people have adapted it.

Now about that hole punch again?

Laugh laugh laugh

Gunner
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-07 11:45:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:47:11 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
"obviously things can be adapted"
i guess youre adapting buddhism
Of course.
- Otto, what are you doing?
- It's a Buddhist meditation technique.
Focuses your aggression.
The monks used to do it before battle.
- What kind of Buddhism is this, Otto?
- Asshole!
It's an early Tantric meditation.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095159/quotes

Otto: Don't call me stupid.
Wendy: Why on earth not?

Otto: We didn't lose Vietnam. It was a tie!

Wanda: To call you stupid would be an insult to stupid people. I've known sheep
who could outwit you. I've worn dresses with higher IQs, but you think you're an
intellectual, don't you, ape?
Otto: Apes don't read philosophy.
Wanda: Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it.

Wanda: Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man
for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are
all mistakes, Otto. I looked them up.

Otto: You're a very attractive man, Ken. You're... smart, you've got wonderful
bones, and you dress really interestingly.
Post by Gunner Asch
Thats why there are at least 6 different "schools" of buddhism.
Many people have adapted it.
how many others have rejected the eightfold way?

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Monika Krug
2008-01-07 20:55:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
Now about that hole punch again?
What about the hole punch?

Monika.
--
Every time you reboot, God kills a kitten.

E-mail address is valid until 4 weeks after the expiration date. Use
@arcor.de instead.
DaveG
2008-01-07 10:52:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:04:14 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
it helps that you realize such thoughts are not healthy but these
violence on yourself is not the way to get better
Those that commit violence to my person may or may not live to regret
their actions.
Interesting. Now, about this violence you commit on yourself... :-D
--
Climate Change may be raising the sea levels, but the gene pool
seems to be drying up.
Gunner Asch
2008-01-04 18:50:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by DaveG
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:04:14 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
it helps that you realize such thoughts are not healthy but these
violence on yourself is not the way to get better
Those that commit violence to my person may or may not live to regret
their actions.
Interesting. Now, about this violence you commit on yourself... :-D
What violence would that be? Zit popping? Splinter pulling?
Ass kicking when I make a mistake?

Be specific

Gunner
DaveG
2008-01-07 22:50:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by DaveG
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:04:14 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
it helps that you realize such thoughts are not healthy but these
violence on yourself is not the way to get better
Those that commit violence to my person may or may not live to regret
their actions.
Interesting. Now, about this violence you commit on yourself... :-D
What violence would that be? Zit popping? Splinter pulling? Ass
kicking when I make a mistake?
You brought up violence, you define it. Provide cites.
Be specific
--
Climate Change may be raising the sea levels, but the gene pool
seems to be drying up.
Cliff
2008-01-07 11:53:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:44:50 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:04:14 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:46:45 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
shes aginna blow capn
Which captain are you gonna blow?
Highschool football team?
you should make peace with your inner child molestor
grasshopper
If I had one, Id off him.
it helps that you realize such thoughts are not healthy
but these violence on yourself is not the way to get better
Those that commit violence to my person may or may not live to regret
their actions.
So you are making a suicide pact with yourself?
--
Cliff
Cliff
2008-01-06 14:32:12 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:39:54 +0100, Monika Krug
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Gunner
Hummm...where have I heard that before...hummm
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his
needs." Karl Marx
You, instead, prefer that those who can't get a job that pays well
enough to die of hunger or illness.
He loses.
He had to get emergency heart work & could not pay.
He'd rather buy guns than pay for health insurance,
wife & kid on welfare medical, etc.
I don't think that they covered gummer's teeth though.
Post by Monika Krug
Monika.
--
Cliff
Bob Brock
2008-01-06 15:11:13 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:39:54 +0100, Monika Krug
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Gunner
Hummm...where have I heard that before...hummm
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his
needs." Karl Marx
You, instead, prefer that those who can't get a job that pays well
enough to die of hunger or illness.
That can't be true. Gunner is alive because he got an operation that
he could not pay for.
Cliff
2008-01-06 14:29:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Hummm...where have I heard that before...hummm
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his
needs." Karl Marx
Not very original, IMHO.

".. to provide the greatest amount of good for the greatest amount of people in
the long run." - Gifford Pinchot, the first Chief of the US Forest Service.

Fear the Gifford Pinchot National Forest: http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/
Mount St. Helens is in it.
--
Cliff
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-06 20:59:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Post by Gunner
Hummm...where have I heard that before...hummm
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his
needs." Karl Marx
Not very original, IMHO.
".. to provide the greatest amount of good for the greatest amount of people in
the long run." - Gifford Pinchot, the first Chief of the US Forest Service.
Fear the Gifford Pinchot National Forest: http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/
Mount St. Helens is in it.
its not nice to fool mother nature

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Lawrence Glickman
2007-12-25 18:54:21 UTC
Permalink
Seems the operation only has a 40% chance of taking and even then the
large doses of anti-rejections drugs required are going to mess up
your system. A successful operation would only have prolonged her life
for a couple of years. If Cigna were my insurance company I would be
glad they didn't pay uber-expensive claims for pie-in-the-sky
treatments.
Nobody I know wants an operation that is only going to keep them alive
for another 5 months MAX or another 5 weeks. It isn't worth the pain,
suffering, and is a waste of an organ that somebody else can use to
stay alive for decades.

Myself, I don't want anybody else's heart. This is the one I was
given at birth, and now G-d and mankind has provided me with a way to
keep it going a bit longer, so that is OK with me. How much longer?
I can ask you the same question: how much more Time do YOU have?
Nobody knows.

I think if I was the patient, I would have asked for palliative care.
IOW, lots of nice seafood (at our own expense from Red Lobster put
into a carry-out package ) and then, probably a steak because who
cares about my kidneys now, and then, some chemicals to keep the pain
and anxiety levels down low to where I can enjoy waking up in the
morning.

For that, at hospice home, I think my insurance will pay for
everything but my lobster tails and fried clams. Then one day, I fall
asleep, and sleep, and in my sleep, I expire.

Most people who die from *natural causes* in my experience and
education, do so while sleeping first. You go to sleep first. This
has to be a good thing, because you are not conscious when you stop
breathing.

So anyhow, that is my opinion. 5 weeks and/or 5 months doesn't
warrant the expense, pain, suffering, and waste of a viable organ that
someone else can use for much longer.

Lg
Cliff
2007-12-26 08:13:17 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Seems the operation only has a 40% chance of taking and even then the
large doses of anti-rejections drugs required are going to mess up
your system. A successful operation would only have prolonged her life
for a couple of years. If Cigna were my insurance company I would be
glad they didn't pay uber-expensive claims for pie-in-the-sky
treatments.
Nobody I know wants an operation that is only going to keep them alive
for another 5 months MAX or another 5 weeks. It isn't worth the pain,
suffering, and is a waste of an organ that somebody else can use to
stay alive for decades.
Myself, I don't want anybody else's heart. This is the one I was
given at birth, and now G-d and mankind has provided me with a way to
keep it going a bit longer, so that is OK with me. How much longer?
I can ask you the same question: how much more Time do YOU have?
Nobody knows.
I think if I was the patient, I would have asked for palliative care.
IOW, lots of nice seafood (at our own expense from Red Lobster put
into a carry-out package ) and then, probably a steak because who
cares about my kidneys now, and then, some chemicals to keep the pain
and anxiety levels down low to where I can enjoy waking up in the
morning.
For that, at hospice home, I think my insurance will pay for
everything but my lobster tails and fried clams. Then one day, I fall
asleep, and sleep, and in my sleep, I expire.
Most people who die from *natural causes* in my experience and
education, do so while sleeping first. You go to sleep first. This
has to be a good thing, because you are not conscious when you stop
breathing.
So anyhow, that is my opinion. 5 weeks and/or 5 months doesn't
warrant the expense, pain, suffering, and waste of a viable organ that
someone else can use for much longer.
Lg
There are protocalls for transplants. Fewer than 1 in 4 that needs one
to live gets one as it is (shortage of organ donors .. GIVE TIL IT HURTS !!!)
It's up to the transplant centers to decide and much of that depends on
specific circumstances. We will never know if a liver became available
which she would have been the best use for ... Cigna denied the
procedure period.
Transplants are not free and the uninsured may never
get one.
If you are uninsured & need one .. perhaps if you kick a cop
they will jail you & get you one as a ward of the State?
Well, probably not ... you'd not be able to later afford to
care for it. One office visit alone might set you back US$ 20,000 ....
or more .... plus all the $$$ meds & $$$ tests ....

"Estimated U.S. Average Billed Charges Per Transplant as of July 1, 2005
First Year Following Transplant"
http://transplantliving.org/beforethetransplant/finance/costs.aspx
Liver Only = $449,200

Her first-year costs would no doubt have been higher.
Suggest you have a bake sale. See the tax lawyers & governments
first though ... funds raised may be taxable AND result in the loss
of other benefits.
--
Cliff
Cliff
2007-12-26 08:15:10 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
--
cliff
mariposas rand mair fheal
2007-12-26 15:16:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
most people die from heart problems

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Aratzio
2007-12-26 16:04:19 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:16:02 -0800, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
most people die from heart problems
I believe that ALL people die from heart problems.
--
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?

Aratzio - Usenet ruiner #2
mariposas rand mair fheal
2007-12-26 16:34:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:16:02 -0800, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
most people die from heart problems
I believe that ALL people die from heart problems.
not always the initiating factor

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Aratzio
2007-12-26 21:15:46 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 08:34:58 -0800, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:16:02 -0800, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
most people die from heart problems
I believe that ALL people die from heart problems.
not always the initiating factor
Dinna say it war.
--
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?

Aratzio - Usenet ruiner #2
Lawrence Glickman
2007-12-26 21:25:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 08:34:58 -0800, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:16:02 -0800, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
most people die from heart problems
I believe that ALL people die from heart problems.
not always the initiating factor
Dinna say it war.
Even without a scratch on your body, overpressure from a nearby
explosive can blow out your lungs, and you die. Nothing, nobody, can
save you from _that_.

Lg
Aratzio
2007-12-26 22:39:42 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:25:30 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 08:34:58 -0800, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:16:02 -0800, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
most people die from heart problems
I believe that ALL people die from heart problems.
not always the initiating factor
Dinna say it war.
Even without a scratch on your body, overpressure from a nearby
explosive can blow out your lungs, and you die. Nothing, nobody, can
save you from _that_.
Lg
All of which causes the heart to stop.

Officially that is now called "clinical death" and the medical
establishment considers "brain death" to be the determinant factor.
And no that is not the vegetative state called "brain dead"

However, for a pathologist "time of death" is cessation of heart beat.
--
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?

Aratzio - Usenet ruiner #2
John R. Carroll
2007-12-26 22:50:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:25:30 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 13:15:46 -0800, Aratzio
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 08:34:58 -0800, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:16:02 -0800, in the land of
alt.usenet.kooks, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
most people die from heart problems
I believe that ALL people die from heart problems.
not always the initiating factor
Dinna say it war.
Even without a scratch on your body, overpressure from a nearby
explosive can blow out your lungs, and you die. Nothing, nobody, can
save you from _that_.
Lg
All of which causes the heart to stop.
Officially that is now called "clinical death" and the medical
establishment considers "brain death" to be the determinant factor.
And no that is not the vegetative state called "brain dead"
However, for a pathologist "time of death" is cessation of heart beat.
No, it isn't.
The "triple cross" is the standard and has been for some time.
3X and you're out.
--
John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com
Gunner Asch
2007-12-27 01:47:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by John R. Carroll
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:25:30 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 13:15:46 -0800, Aratzio
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 08:34:58 -0800, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:16:02 -0800, in the land of
alt.usenet.kooks, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
most people die from heart problems
I believe that ALL people die from heart problems.
not always the initiating factor
Dinna say it war.
Even without a scratch on your body, overpressure from a nearby
explosive can blow out your lungs, and you die. Nothing, nobody, can
save you from _that_.
Lg
All of which causes the heart to stop.
Officially that is now called "clinical death" and the medical
establishment considers "brain death" to be the determinant factor.
And no that is not the vegetative state called "brain dead"
However, for a pathologist "time of death" is cessation of heart beat.
No, it isn't.
The "triple cross" is the standard and has been for some time.
3X and you're out.
Correct.

By haveing heart beat merely stop..a bunch of us would be dead.

Gunner
Monika Krug
2008-01-05 14:42:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by John R. Carroll
Post by Aratzio
However, for a pathologist "time of death" is cessation of heart beat.
No, it isn't.
The "triple cross" is the standard and has been for some time.
3X and you're out.
What are the 3 X for?

Monika.
--
Every time you reboot, God kills a kitten.

E-mail address is valid until 4 weeks after the expiration date. Use
@arcor.de instead.
§ñühw¤£f
2008-01-05 16:46:53 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:42:49 +0100
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Aratzio
Post by Aratzio
However, for a pathologist "time of death" is cessation of
heart beat.
No, it isn't.
The "triple cross" is the standard and has been for some time.
3X and you're out.
What are the 3 X for?
Three resuscitations...

--
www.impeachcheney.org
Lawrence Glickman
2008-01-05 16:05:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by §ñühw¤£f
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:42:49 +0100
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Aratzio
Post by Aratzio
However, for a pathologist "time of death" is cessation of
heart beat.
No, it isn't.
The "triple cross" is the standard and has been for some time.
3X and you're out.
What are the 3 X for?
Three resuscitations...
You have just TWO MINUTES to get the heart beating again before
permanent brain and organ damage set in. You should read some
statistics. Just getting a heartbeat back, and even respiration,
doesn't mean the victim is still *alive.* Unless you consider being
in a vegetative state being alive.

Almost nobody can get a heart restarted inside this two minute window.
It takes that much time just to find the equipment, or dial a phone
for emergency services.

Call the name of this tune: D.O.A.

Lg
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-05 20:36:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Post by §ñühw¤£f
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:42:49 +0100
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Aratzio
Post by Aratzio
However, for a pathologist "time of death" is cessation of
heart beat.
No, it isn't.
The "triple cross" is the standard and has been for some time.
3X and you're out.
What are the 3 X for?
Three resuscitations...
You have just TWO MINUTES to get the heart beating again before
permanent brain and organ damage set in. You should read some
damage increases with time
a few people have been out for up to twenty minutes and survive
with permanent deficits but they are still conscious and mobile

most of rest of your body lasts 30 to 60 minutes
before fatal damage
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Almost nobody can get a heart restarted inside this two minute window.
It takes that much time just to find the equipment, or dial a phone
for emergency services.
Call the name of this tune: D.O.A.
the situation is bad but not universally fatal

i suspect most cpr fails because the victim has a number of problems
and the heart stopping is just the most obvious indication

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Cliff
2008-01-06 14:52:45 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 12:36:20 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Post by §ñühw¤£f
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:42:49 +0100
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Aratzio
Post by Aratzio
However, for a pathologist "time of death" is cessation of
heart beat.
No, it isn't.
The "triple cross" is the standard and has been for some time.
3X and you're out.
What are the 3 X for?
Three resuscitations...
You have just TWO MINUTES to get the heart beating again before
permanent brain and organ damage set in. You should read some
damage increases with time
a few people have been out for up to twenty minutes and survive
with permanent deficits but they are still conscious and mobile
most of rest of your body lasts 30 to 60 minutes
before fatal damage
Some organs can last a long time.

I trust all are signed up as organ donors.

You need it in you wills too IIRC, not *just* on a driver's
license or a card.
Also be very clear with your next-of-kin as to your
wishes.

Your eventual death might save many lives and you'll
not be needing the soon-to-be rotting bits anymore anyway.
--
Cliff
Monika Krug
2008-01-07 21:01:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
I trust all are signed up as organ donors.
Sure. And ordered 50 donor cards and bugging everybody to sign them <g>.
Post by Cliff
You need it in you wills too IIRC, not *just* on a driver's
license or a card.
Are you sure? As far as I know, in the US just as in Germany, it just
needs to be clear in some way what you wanted. A piece of paper or in
the will or just talking about it with relatives and they tell the
doctors that is what you wanted. Any of it will do.
Post by Cliff
Also be very clear with your next-of-kin as to your
wishes.
Your eventual death might save many lives and you'll
not be needing the soon-to-be rotting bits anymore anyway.
Exactly.

Monika.
--
Every time you reboot, God kills a kitten.

E-mail address is valid until 4 weeks after the expiration date. Use
@arcor.de instead.
DaveG
2008-01-07 22:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Cliff
I trust all are signed up as organ donors.
Sure. And ordered 50 donor cards and bugging everybody to sign them <g>.
I voted for the organ doner scheme to be opt out in the UK. Nothing has
happened as yet though :-(
--
Climate Change may be raising the sea levels, but the gene pool
seems to be drying up.
Monika Krug
2008-01-12 13:51:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by DaveG
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Cliff
I trust all are signed up as organ donors.
Sure. And ordered 50 donor cards and bugging everybody to sign them <g>.
I voted for the organ doner scheme to be opt out in the UK. Nothing has
happened as yet though :-(
Austria implemented it. But in Germany it doesn't look like it's going
to happen any time soon :-( .

Monika.
--
Every time you reboot, God kills a kitten.

E-mail address is valid until 4 weeks after the expiration date. Use
@arcor.de instead.
Cliff
2008-01-08 10:34:37 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 22:01:22 +0100, Monika Krug
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Cliff
I trust all are signed up as organ donors.
Sure. And ordered 50 donor cards and bugging everybody to sign them <g>.
Post by Cliff
You need it in you wills too IIRC, not *just* on a driver's
license or a card.
Are you sure?
Pretty much as far as the US goes. Some heir or next of kin
might otherwise object.
If really "cheap" leave all other remains to medical schools too.
Maximizes benefits to heirs.
Post by Monika Krug
As far as I know, in the US just as in Germany, it just
needs to be clear in some way what you wanted. A piece of paper or in
the will or just talking about it with relatives and they tell the
doctors that is what you wanted. Any of it will do.
Post by Cliff
Also be very clear with your next-of-kin as to your
wishes.
Your eventual death might save many lives and you'll
not be needing the soon-to-be rotting bits anymore anyway.
Exactly.
Monika.
--
Cliff
Cliff
2008-01-06 14:47:16 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 10:05:29 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Post by §ñühw¤£f
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:42:49 +0100
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Aratzio
Post by Aratzio
However, for a pathologist "time of death" is cessation of
heart beat.
No, it isn't.
The "triple cross" is the standard and has been for some time.
3X and you're out.
What are the 3 X for?
Three resuscitations...
You have just TWO MINUTES to get the heart beating again before
permanent brain and organ damage set in. You should read some
statistics. Just getting a heartbeat back, and even respiration,
doesn't mean the victim is still *alive.* Unless you consider being
in a vegetative state being alive.
Seems simple Lead doses in the range of 10 ug/dL drops the IQ
of a winger ...... perhaps 6 IQ points per 10 ug/dL ... they can
end up as wingers or banquers ...

The dangers of Lead were known by about 1903 and it was banned
in paint parts or Europe by about 1917.

Wingers in the US resisted the ban for a long time.
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Almost nobody can get a heart restarted inside this two minute window.
It takes that much time just to find the equipment, or dial a phone
for emergency services.
Call the name of this tune: D.O.A.
Lg
--
Cliff
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-06 20:58:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Post by Lawrence Glickman
You have just TWO MINUTES to get the heart beating again before
permanent brain and organ damage set in. You should read some
statistics. Just getting a heartbeat back, and even respiration,
doesn't mean the victim is still *alive.* Unless you consider being
in a vegetative state being alive.
Seems simple Lead doses in the range of 10 ug/dL drops the IQ
of a winger ...... perhaps 6 IQ points per 10 ug/dL ... they can
end up as wingers or banquers ...
most attempts at cpr before getting to hospital are failures
but sometimes it succeeds

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Gunner Asch
2008-01-07 02:24:20 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:58:15 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
Post by Lawrence Glickman
You have just TWO MINUTES to get the heart beating again before
permanent brain and organ damage set in. You should read some
statistics. Just getting a heartbeat back, and even respiration,
doesn't mean the victim is still *alive.* Unless you consider being
in a vegetative state being alive.
Seems simple Lead doses in the range of 10 ug/dL drops the IQ
of a winger ...... perhaps 6 IQ points per 10 ug/dL ... they can
end up as wingers or banquers ...
most attempts at cpr before getting to hospital are failures
but sometimes it succeeds
Fortunately the Left tends to terminate their offspring and are doing
so in such numbers that they are no longer at replacement value.

If they didnt, we would have even more helpless retarded kids on the
dole.

Afterall...Liberalism is a mental illness.

Gunner
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
cncfixxer1
2008-01-07 03:21:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
Afterall...Liberalism is a mental illness.
Gunner
Liberalism is simply a person that believes evolution has somehow smiled on
then by giving wisdom beyond the "simple people".
History's lessons are meaningless to them.due to the fact they were not born
yet,therefore only idiots inhabited the world.
Liberal's have strength in numbers, they rely on each other for support.
They get their way by polarizing one group against another exactly like
Hitler and his Brown Shirts convinced Germany the world was inferior and
that German's were smarter than anyone else.

Liberal's have nothing in common with Liberty
Cliff
2008-01-07 11:34:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by cncfixxer1
Post by Gunner Asch
Afterall...Liberalism is a mental illness.
Gunner
Liberalism is simply a person that believes evolution has somehow smiled on
then by giving wisdom beyond the "simple people".
They call it the right-wing because they lie about everything,
starting with "right". Probably in their rules. That and being idiots
& wanting to steal & murder people. And impose their silly superstitions
by force on everybody but themselves.

[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal
[
Liberalism refers to a broad array of related doctrines, ideologies,
philosophical views, and political traditions which advocate individual liberty.
...
Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights. It seeks a society
characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power
(especially of government and religion), the rule of law, the free exchange of
ideas, a market economy that supports free private enterprise, and a transparent
system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected.
...
Liberalism rejected many foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier
theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status,
and established religion. Fundamental human rights that all liberals support
include the right to life, liberty, and property.
]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservativism
[
Conservatism is a relativistic term used to describe political philosophies that
favor traditional values, where "tradition" refers to religious, cultural, or
nationally defined beliefs and customs.
...
Some conservatives seek to preserve the status quo, while others seek to return
to the values of an earlier time, the status quo ante.
...
The prototype of a conservative society is the medieval manor where the majority
were serfs who lived under the authority of the "lords" and the Church. Such an
arrangement insulated itself from change. Conservatism has not produced, nor
does it tend to produce systematic treatises like Hobbes’ Leviathan or Locke’s
Two Treatises of Government.
...
[


Scholar R.J. White once put it this way:


"To put conservatism in a bottle with a label is like trying to liquefy the
atmosphere … The difficulty arises from the nature of the thing. Conservatives
are people who live in the shroud of ignorance and darkness...."
]
...
Benjamin Disraeli, himself a member of the Conservative Party in England, wrote
in 1845, "A conservative government is an organized hypocrisy. The comment was
provoked when the Conservative Party split into two groups, based on whether or
not they would personally profit from the repeal of the corn laws"
...
In western democracies, 'conservative' and 'right-wing' are often used
interchangeably, as near-synonyms.
...
Religious conservatives seek to preserve the teachings of some particular
religion, sometimes by proclaiming the value of those teachings, at other times
seeking to have those teachings given the force of law.
...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi
"Early support for the Nazis, displayed in various parades, came from the old
conservative order that was the military."
...
"... Nazism's populism, anti-Communism and anti-capitalism helped it become
more powerful and popular than traditional conservative parties."
...
"The simplicity of Nazi rhetoric, campaigns, and ideology also made its
conservative allies underestimate its strength .."
...
" .. Britain (from 1931 onwards under an overwhelmingly Conservative
government) had appeased pre-Nazi Germany."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
"Fascism had a strong base of support among the working classes and extremely
poor peasants. Other supports have included members of big business, farmers and
landowners, nationalists, and reactionaries, disaffected World War I veterans,
intellectuals such as Gabriele D'Annunzio, Curzio Malaparte, Filippo Tommaso
Marinetti, Carl Schmitt and Martin Heidegger, conservatives and small
businessmen."
...
"Italian Fascism took power with the blessing of Italy's king after years of
leftist-led unrest led many conservatives to fear that a communist revolution
was inevitable (Marxist philosopher Antonio Gramsci popularized the conception
that fascism was the Capital's response to the organized workers' movement)."
...
Throughout Europe, numerous aristocrats, conservative intellectuals,
capitalists and industrialists lent their support to fascist movements in their
countries that emulated Italian Fascism. In Germany, numerous right-wing
nationalist groups arose ...
...
Fascist movements like Rexism in Belgium and the Christian Social Party also
combined fascist and conservative populist Roman Catholic elements."
]
Post by cncfixxer1
History's lessons are meaningless to them.due to the fact they were not born
yet,therefore only idiots inhabited the world.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different
results." - Albert Einstein

Found those "WMDs" yet?
Post by cncfixxer1
Liberal's have strength in numbers, they rely on each other for support.
Thinking of taking some college classes?
Post by cncfixxer1
They get their way by polarizing one group against another exactly like
Hitler and his Brown Shirts convinced Germany the world was inferior and
that German's were smarter than anyone else.
[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal
[
Liberalism refers to a broad array of related doctrines, ideologies,
philosophical views, and political traditions which advocate individual liberty.
...
Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights. It seeks a society
characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power
(especially of government and religion), the rule of law, the free exchange of
ideas, a market economy that supports free private enterprise, and a transparent
system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected.
...
Liberalism rejected many foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier
theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status,
and established religion. Fundamental human rights that all liberals support
include the right to life, liberty, and property.
]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservativism
[
Conservatism is a relativistic term used to describe political philosophies that
favor traditional values, where "tradition" refers to religious, cultural, or
nationally defined beliefs and customs.
...
Some conservatives seek to preserve the status quo, while others seek to return
to the values of an earlier time, the status quo ante.
...
The prototype of a conservative society is the medieval manor where the majority
were serfs who lived under the authority of the "lords" and the Church. Such an
arrangement insulated itself from change. Conservatism has not produced, nor
does it tend to produce systematic treatises like Hobbes’ Leviathan or Locke’s
Two Treatises of Government.
...
[


Scholar R.J. White once put it this way:


"To put conservatism in a bottle with a label is like trying to liquefy the
atmosphere … The difficulty arises from the nature of the thing. Conservatives
are people who live in the shroud of ignorance and darkness...."
]
...
Benjamin Disraeli, himself a member of the Conservative Party in England, wrote
in 1845, "A conservative government is an organized hypocrisy. The comment was
provoked when the Conservative Party split into two groups, based on whether or
not they would personally profit from the repeal of the corn laws"
...
In western democracies, 'conservative' and 'right-wing' are often used
interchangeably, as near-synonyms.
...
Religious conservatives seek to preserve the teachings of some particular
religion, sometimes by proclaiming the value of those teachings, at other times
seeking to have those teachings given the force of law.
...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi
"Early support for the Nazis, displayed in various parades, came from the old
conservative order that was the military."
...
"... Nazism's populism, anti-Communism and anti-capitalism helped it become
more powerful and popular than traditional conservative parties."
...
"The simplicity of Nazi rhetoric, campaigns, and ideology also made its
conservative allies underestimate its strength .."
...
" .. Britain (from 1931 onwards under an overwhelmingly Conservative
government) had appeased pre-Nazi Germany."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
"Fascism had a strong base of support among the working classes and extremely
poor peasants. Other supports have included members of big business, farmers and
landowners, nationalists, and reactionaries, disaffected World War I veterans,
intellectuals such as Gabriele D'Annunzio, Curzio Malaparte, Filippo Tommaso
Marinetti, Carl Schmitt and Martin Heidegger, conservatives and small
businessmen."
...
"Italian Fascism took power with the blessing of Italy's king after years of
leftist-led unrest led many conservatives to fear that a communist revolution
was inevitable (Marxist philosopher Antonio Gramsci popularized the conception
that fascism was the Capital's response to the organized workers' movement)."
...
Throughout Europe, numerous aristocrats, conservative intellectuals,
capitalists and industrialists lent their support to fascist movements in their
countries that emulated Italian Fascism. In Germany, numerous right-wing
nationalist groups arose ...
...
Fascist movements like Rexism in Belgium and the Christian Social Party also
combined fascist and conservative populist Roman Catholic elements."
]
Post by cncfixxer1
Liberal's have nothing in common with Liberty
[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal
[
Liberalism refers to a broad array of related doctrines, ideologies,
philosophical views, and political traditions which advocate individual liberty.
...
Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights. It seeks a society
characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power
(especially of government and religion), the rule of law, the free exchange of
ideas, a market economy that supports free private enterprise, and a transparent
system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected.
...
Liberalism rejected many foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier
theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status,
and established religion. Fundamental human rights that all liberals support
include the right to life, liberty, and property.
]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservativism
[
Conservatism is a relativistic term used to describe political philosophies that
favor traditional values, where "tradition" refers to religious, cultural, or
nationally defined beliefs and customs.
...
Some conservatives seek to preserve the status quo, while others seek to return
to the values of an earlier time, the status quo ante.
...
The prototype of a conservative society is the medieval manor where the majority
were serfs who lived under the authority of the "lords" and the Church. Such an
arrangement insulated itself from change. Conservatism has not produced, nor
does it tend to produce systematic treatises like Hobbes’ Leviathan or Locke’s
Two Treatises of Government.
...
[


Scholar R.J. White once put it this way:


"To put conservatism in a bottle with a label is like trying to liquefy the
atmosphere … The difficulty arises from the nature of the thing. Conservatives
are people who live in the shroud of ignorance and darkness...."
]
...
Benjamin Disraeli, himself a member of the Conservative Party in England, wrote
in 1845, "A conservative government is an organized hypocrisy. The comment was
provoked when the Conservative Party split into two groups, based on whether or
not they would personally profit from the repeal of the corn laws"
...
In western democracies, 'conservative' and 'right-wing' are often used
interchangeably, as near-synonyms.
...
Religious conservatives seek to preserve the teachings of some particular
religion, sometimes by proclaiming the value of those teachings, at other times
seeking to have those teachings given the force of law.
...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi
"Early support for the Nazis, displayed in various parades, came from the old
conservative order that was the military."
...
"... Nazism's populism, anti-Communism and anti-capitalism helped it become
more powerful and popular than traditional conservative parties."
...
"The simplicity of Nazi rhetoric, campaigns, and ideology also made its
conservative allies underestimate its strength .."
...
" .. Britain (from 1931 onwards under an overwhelmingly Conservative
government) had appeased pre-Nazi Germany."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
"Fascism had a strong base of support among the working classes and extremely
poor peasants. Other supports have included members of big business, farmers and
landowners, nationalists, and reactionaries, disaffected World War I veterans,
intellectuals such as Gabriele D'Annunzio, Curzio Malaparte, Filippo Tommaso
Marinetti, Carl Schmitt and Martin Heidegger, conservatives and small
businessmen."
...
"Italian Fascism took power with the blessing of Italy's king after years of
leftist-led unrest led many conservatives to fear that a communist revolution
was inevitable (Marxist philosopher Antonio Gramsci popularized the conception
that fascism was the Capital's response to the organized workers' movement)."
...
Throughout Europe, numerous aristocrats, conservative intellectuals,
capitalists and industrialists lent their support to fascist movements in their
countries that emulated Italian Fascism. In Germany, numerous right-wing
nationalist groups arose ...
...
Fascist movements like Rexism in Belgium and the Christian Social Party also
combined fascist and conservative populist Roman Catholic elements."
]

BTW, Found those "WMDs" yet?

The Bush Doctrine: Lie, lie some more, create ultimate disasters,
take vacation.

"You Have To Keep Repeating Things To Catapult The Propaganda". -
george w. bush on May 24 2005

"If you repeat a lie often enough, then it becomes a Bush policy."
HTH

SureShot Cheney is no Dan Quayle !!

[
Quotes: Family Guy: Peter
[Riding a circus elephant]
Peter: Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a
fat white guy who is threatened by change.
]
--
Cliff
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-07 03:48:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:58:15 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
Post by Lawrence Glickman
You have just TWO MINUTES to get the heart beating again before
permanent brain and organ damage set in. You should read some
statistics. Just getting a heartbeat back, and even respiration,
doesn't mean the victim is still *alive.* Unless you consider being
in a vegetative state being alive.
Seems simple Lead doses in the range of 10 ug/dL drops the IQ
of a winger ...... perhaps 6 IQ points per 10 ug/dL ... they can
end up as wingers or banquers ...
most attempts at cpr before getting to hospital are failures
but sometimes it succeeds
Fortunately the Left tends to terminate their offspring and are doing
so in such numbers that they are no longer at replacement value.
If they didnt, we would have even more helpless retarded kids on the
dole.
Afterall...Liberalism is a mental illness.
are you voting for the -christian leader- next month?

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Gunner Asch
2008-01-07 10:27:36 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:48:48 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:58:15 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
Post by Lawrence Glickman
You have just TWO MINUTES to get the heart beating again before
permanent brain and organ damage set in. You should read some
statistics. Just getting a heartbeat back, and even respiration,
doesn't mean the victim is still *alive.* Unless you consider being
in a vegetative state being alive.
Seems simple Lead doses in the range of 10 ug/dL drops the IQ
of a winger ...... perhaps 6 IQ points per 10 ug/dL ... they can
end up as wingers or banquers ...
most attempts at cpr before getting to hospital are failures
but sometimes it succeeds
Fortunately the Left tends to terminate their offspring and are doing
so in such numbers that they are no longer at replacement value.
If they didnt, we would have even more helpless retarded kids on the
dole.
Afterall...Liberalism is a mental illness.
are you voting for the -christian leader- next month?
Which -christian leader- are you referring to? And in what election?

If you are referring to the presidential candidates, they all are
alleged to be Christians.

But then...the Hopeless Fuckwits didnt know that, right?

Gunner
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-07 10:36:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:48:48 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:58:15 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
Post by Lawrence Glickman
You have just TWO MINUTES to get the heart beating again before
permanent brain and organ damage set in. You should read some
statistics. Just getting a heartbeat back, and even respiration,
doesn't mean the victim is still *alive.* Unless you consider being
in a vegetative state being alive.
Seems simple Lead doses in the range of 10 ug/dL drops the IQ
of a winger ...... perhaps 6 IQ points per 10 ug/dL ... they can
end up as wingers or banquers ...
most attempts at cpr before getting to hospital are failures
but sometimes it succeeds
Fortunately the Left tends to terminate their offspring and are doing
so in such numbers that they are no longer at replacement value.
If they didnt, we would have even more helpless retarded kids on the
dole.
Afterall...Liberalism is a mental illness.
are you voting for the -christian leader- next month?
Which -christian leader- are you referring to? And in what election?
glad to see youre involved in the primary

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Cliff
2008-01-07 11:38:09 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 02:36:13 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:48:48 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:58:15 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
Post by Lawrence Glickman
You have just TWO MINUTES to get the heart beating again before
permanent brain and organ damage set in. You should read some
statistics. Just getting a heartbeat back, and even respiration,
doesn't mean the victim is still *alive.* Unless you consider being
in a vegetative state being alive.
Seems simple Lead doses in the range of 10 ug/dL drops the IQ
of a winger ...... perhaps 6 IQ points per 10 ug/dL ... they can
end up as wingers or banquers ...
most attempts at cpr before getting to hospital are failures
but sometimes it succeeds
Fortunately the Left tends to terminate their offspring and are doing
so in such numbers that they are no longer at replacement value.
If they didnt, we would have even more helpless retarded kids on the
dole.
Afterall...Liberalism is a mental illness.
are you voting for the -christian leader- next month?
Which -christian leader- are you referring to? And in what election?
glad to see youre involved in the primary
He's probably voting for Clinton again.
He just cannot resist a moderate conservative.

Watch for the Monica envy ...
--
Cliff
Gunner Asch
2008-01-04 18:32:54 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 02:36:13 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:48:48 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:58:15 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
Post by Lawrence Glickman
You have just TWO MINUTES to get the heart beating again before
permanent brain and organ damage set in. You should read some
statistics. Just getting a heartbeat back, and even respiration,
doesn't mean the victim is still *alive.* Unless you consider being
in a vegetative state being alive.
Seems simple Lead doses in the range of 10 ug/dL drops the IQ
of a winger ...... perhaps 6 IQ points per 10 ug/dL ... they can
end up as wingers or banquers ...
most attempts at cpr before getting to hospital are failures
but sometimes it succeeds
Fortunately the Left tends to terminate their offspring and are doing
so in such numbers that they are no longer at replacement value.
If they didnt, we would have even more helpless retarded kids on the
dole.
Afterall...Liberalism is a mental illness.
are you voting for the -christian leader- next month?
Which -christian leader- are you referring to? And in what election?
glad to see youre involved in the primary
Im working. When they settle out the candidates, Ill pay more
attention to the candidates.

Obviously I wont be voting for a Democrat this time around, now as to
which Republican or Independant...We have 10 months to decide

Gunner
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Cliff
2008-01-07 11:27:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:58:15 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
Post by Lawrence Glickman
You have just TWO MINUTES to get the heart beating again before
permanent brain and organ damage set in. You should read some
statistics. Just getting a heartbeat back, and even respiration,
doesn't mean the victim is still *alive.* Unless you consider being
in a vegetative state being alive.
Seems simple Lead doses in the range of 10 ug/dL drops the IQ
of a winger ...... perhaps 6 IQ points per 10 ug/dL ... they can
end up as wingers or banquers ...
most attempts at cpr before getting to hospital are failures
but sometimes it succeeds
Fortunately the Left tends to terminate their offspring and are doing
so in such numbers that they are no longer at replacement value.
Gates. Buffett. .....
Post by Gunner Asch
If they didnt, we would have even more helpless retarded kids on the
dole.
You & yours, eh?
Post by Gunner Asch
Afterall...Liberalism is a mental illness.
Perhaps caused by a lack of Lead, Mercury & raw sewage in the diet, eh?
Neocon vitamins.
Post by Gunner Asch
Gunner
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
mariposas rand mair fheal: Would you mind adding a cutline to
your sigs? I usually manually trim them off but it's added effort.
TNX
--
Cliff
§ñühw¤£f
2008-01-06 16:51:15 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 10:05:29 -0600
On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 08:46:53 -0800, §ñühw¤£f
Post by §ñühw¤£f
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:42:49 +0100
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Aratzio
Post by Aratzio
However, for a pathologist "time of death" is cessation of
heart beat.
No, it isn't.
The "triple cross" is the standard and has been for some
time.> > 3X and you're out.
Post by Monika Krug
What are the 3 X for?
Three resuscitations...
You have just TWO MINUTES to get the heart beating again before
permanent brain and organ damage set in. You should read some
statistics. Just getting a heartbeat back, and even respiration,
doesn't mean the victim is still *alive.* Unless you consider
being in a vegetative state being alive.
Almost nobody can get a heart restarted inside this two minute
window. It takes that much time just to find the equipment, or
dial a phone for emergency services.
Call the name of this tune: D.O.A.
Lg
Depends on the cause of "death".
Falling into icy water and drowning or just becoming dead from
hypothermia is reversable for periods considerably longer than 3
minutes.
FYI
HTH

--
www.alternet.org
Cliff
2008-01-07 11:22:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by §ñühw¤£f
Falling into icy water and drowning or just becoming dead from
hypothermia is reversable for periods considerably longer than 3
minutes.
Depends.
See Diving Reflex IIRC.
--
Cliff
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-07 12:09:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Post by §ñühw¤£f
Falling into icy water and drowning or just becoming dead from
hypothermia is reversable for periods considerably longer than 3
minutes.
Depends.
See Diving Reflex IIRC.
mammalian dive reflex
also involves the vagus nerve

in the extreme form the heart does not stop
it just beats very slowly
with blood flow restricted to the heart and brain
the blood oxygen can last two or more hours
saving the heart and brain while sacraficing other parts of the body

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Monika Krug
2008-01-07 21:04:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by §ñühw¤£f
Depends on the cause of "death".
Falling into icy water and drowning or just becoming dead from
hypothermia is reversable for periods considerably longer than 3
minutes.
How long? Wondering, because of Grey's Anatomy.

Monika.
--
Every time you reboot, God kills a kitten.

E-mail address is valid until 4 weeks after the expiration date. Use
@arcor.de instead.
Don McC
2008-01-07 22:35:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Monika Krug
Post by §ñühw¤£f
Falling into icy water and drowning or just becoming dead from
hypothermia is reversible for periods considerably longer than 3
minutes.
How long? Wondering, because of Grey's Anatomy.
Lack of oxygen will result in loss of consciousness in four minutes,
brain damage in six minutes, and death in ten minutes. However,
these times are quite variable depending upon cause, age, and
temperature. Promptness of CPR, defibrillation, and other medical
intervention are factors. Small children have survived for an hour
in cold water.

http://www.ilsf.org/medical/policy_07.htm

--

Don

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are much more pliable.
~ Mark Twain
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-08 00:11:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don McC
Post by Monika Krug
Post by §ñühw¤£f
Falling into icy water and drowning or just becoming dead from
hypothermia is reversible for periods considerably longer than 3
minutes.
How long? Wondering, because of Grey's Anatomy.
Lack of oxygen will result in loss of consciousness in four minutes,
under ideal conditions the oxygen is conserved
and the brain and heart can last a couple of hours without respiration
Post by Don McC
brain damage in six minutes, and death in ten minutes. However,
these times are quite variable depending upon cause, age, and
temperature. Promptness of CPR, defibrillation, and other medical
intervention are factors. Small children have survived for an hour
in cold water.
http://www.ilsf.org/medical/policy_07.htm
soemtimes the heart slows without stopping
but appears to be stopped

best to try anyway and let a doctor to decide

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Spehro Pefhany
2007-12-26 23:06:38 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:25:30 -0600, the renowned Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 08:34:58 -0800, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:16:02 -0800, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
most people die from heart problems
I believe that ALL people die from heart problems.
not always the initiating factor
Dinna say it war.
Even without a scratch on your body, overpressure from a nearby
explosive can blow out your lungs, and you die. Nothing, nobody, can
save you from _that_.
Lg
http://www.wg-plc.com/international/defence/body+armour/EOD+Bomb+Suit.html



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
***@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Cliff
2007-12-26 23:28:47 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:06:38 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
Post by Spehro Pefhany
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:25:30 -0600, the renowned Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 08:34:58 -0800, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:16:02 -0800, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
most people die from heart problems
I believe that ALL people die from heart problems.
not always the initiating factor
Dinna say it war.
Even without a scratch on your body, overpressure from a nearby
explosive can blow out your lungs, and you die. Nothing, nobody, can
save you from _that_.
Lg
http://www.wg-plc.com/international/defence/body+armour/EOD+Bomb+Suit.html
Now is the proper time for Gunner & the bear suit.
--
Cliff
Monika Krug
2008-01-05 14:41:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Even without a scratch on your body, overpressure from a nearby
explosive can blow out your lungs, and you die.
Hmm, wouldn't that need to be underpressure? Why would the lungs blow
out (be sucked out) otherwise?

Monika.
--
Every time you reboot, God kills a kitten.

E-mail address is valid until 4 weeks after the expiration date. Use
@arcor.de instead.
Gunner
2008-01-05 18:44:20 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:41:43 +0100, Monika Krug
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Even without a scratch on your body, overpressure from a nearby
explosive can blow out your lungs, and you die.
Hmm, wouldn't that need to be underpressure? Why would the lungs blow
out (be sucked out) otherwise?
Monika.
Because they are empty bags surrounded by meat.

Think of it as squeezing a tube of tooth paste.

Gunner
Monika Krug
2008-01-05 14:40:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:16:02 -0800, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
most people die from heart problems
I believe that ALL people die from heart problems.
If this were so, there would never be any heart transplants.

Monika.
--
Every time you reboot, God kills a kitten.

E-mail address is valid until 4 weeks after the expiration date. Use
@arcor.de instead.
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-05 20:38:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Aratzio
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:16:02 -0800, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
most people die from heart problems
I believe that ALL people die from heart problems.
If this were so, there would never be any heart transplants.
he was making a funny
eventually everyones heart stops

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Cliff
2007-12-26 23:26:13 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:16:02 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
most people die from heart problems
Not if they live long enough.
BTW, Once they die of "heart problems" most are not
living long enough.

Mortality rates do seem to fall off a bit over a certain age.
It's a bit odd.
--
Cliff
Monika Krug
2008-01-05 14:39:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
Cites?

Monika.
--
Every time you reboot, God kills a kitten.

E-mail address is valid until 4 weeks after the expiration date. Use
@arcor.de instead.
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-05 20:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
Cites?
cancer is like a lot of infections
often your immune system detects it and kills it
without youre being conscious of it

they show up on some antibody tests
after your body has already detected and killed them

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Monika Krug
2008-01-06 02:49:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
Cites?
cancer is like a lot of infections
often your immune system detects it and kills it
without youre being conscious of it
they show up on some antibody tests
after your body has already detected and killed them
I don't believe that. As far as I know, cancer is very different from
infections and does not get killed by the immune system. Do you have any
cites for this?

Monika.
--
Every time you reboot, God kills a kitten.

E-mail address is valid until 4 weeks after the expiration date. Use
@arcor.de instead.
Sean
2008-01-06 03:00:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Monika Krug
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already have
a cancer.
Cites?
cancer is like a lot of infections
often your immune system detects it and kills it
without youre being conscious of it
they show up on some antibody tests
after your body has already detected and killed them
I don't believe that. As far as I know, cancer is very different from
infections and does not get killed by the immune system. Do you have any
cites for this?
Monika.
Who gives a shit what you think?
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-06 03:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sean
Post by Monika Krug
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already have
a cancer.
Cites?
cancer is like a lot of infections
often your immune system detects it and kills it
without youre being conscious of it
they show up on some antibody tests
after your body has already detected and killed them
I don't believe that. As far as I know, cancer is very different from
infections and does not get killed by the immune system. Do you have any
cites for this?
Monika.
Who gives a shit what you think?
lots of people


who are you?

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
John "C"
2008-01-06 03:45:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Sean
Post by Monika Krug
In article
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already have
a cancer.
Cites?
cancer is like a lot of infections
often your immune system detects it and kills it
without youre being conscious of it
they show up on some antibody tests
after your body has already detected and killed them
I don't believe that. As far as I know, cancer is very different from
infections and does not get killed by the immune system. Do you have any
cites for this?
Monika.
Who gives a shit what you think?
lots of people
who are you?
The Ghost of Sean Monafag.
Cliff
2008-01-06 14:20:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sean
Who gives a shit what you think?
No clues either, eh?

This the guy in mom's basement with the bats?
--
Cliff
Myal
2008-01-07 06:57:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sean
Post by Monika Krug
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
Cites?
cancer is like a lot of infections
often your immune system detects it and kills it
without youre being conscious of it
they show up on some antibody tests
after your body has already detected and killed them
I don't believe that. As far as I know, cancer is very different from
infections and does not get killed by the immune system. Do you have
any cites for this?
Monika.
Who gives a shit what you think?
there are some types of cancer that are known to be begun by viri at
least ... see the aussie immunisation against cervical cancer ...
mariposas rand mair fheal
2008-01-06 03:25:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Monika Krug
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
Cites?
cancer is like a lot of infections
often your immune system detects it and kills it
without youre being conscious of it
they show up on some antibody tests
after your body has already detected and killed them
I don't believe that. As far as I know, cancer is very different from
its like infections in that can present antigens in the cell membrane
that your immune system can react to and kill the cell
Post by Monika Krug
infections and does not get killed by the immune system. Do you have any
cites for this?
if youre comfortable with english text

http://www.cancer.gov/

and in the search entry type immune response

that includes pages on the immune system in general
and some comments on how it can react to cancer

also http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/understandingcancer/immunesystem/Slide32


you have so many cells in your body
that replication and other errors are inevitable
so we have evolved a layered defense to repair or contain the damage
it normally works properly with conscious effort

arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Monika Krug
2008-01-06 12:43:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Monika Krug
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
Cites?
cancer is like a lot of infections
often your immune system detects it and kills it
without youre being conscious of it
they show up on some antibody tests
after your body has already detected and killed them
I don't believe that. As far as I know, cancer is very different from
its like infections in that can present antigens in the cell membrane
that your immune system can react to and kill the cell
Post by Monika Krug
infections and does not get killed by the immune system. Do you have any
cites for this?
if youre comfortable with english text
Yeah, no problem. I have written my master thesis in English.
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
http://www.cancer.gov/
and in the search entry type immune response
that includes pages on the immune system in general
and some comments on how it can react to cancer
also http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/understandingcancer/immunesystem/Slide32
Thanks.

Monika.
--
Every time you reboot, God kills a kitten.

E-mail address is valid until 4 weeks after the expiration date. Use
@arcor.de instead.
Cliff
2008-01-06 14:18:59 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:49:21 +0100, Monika Krug
Post by Monika Krug
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
Cites?
cancer is like a lot of infections
often your immune system detects it and kills it
without youre being conscious of it
they show up on some antibody tests
after your body has already detected and killed them
I don't believe that. As far as I know, cancer is very different from
infections
True.
Post by Monika Krug
and does not get killed by the immune system. Do you have any
cites for this?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=immune+system+cancer&spell=1
Post by Monika Krug
Monika.
--
Cliff
Cliff
2008-01-06 14:17:25 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 12:46:01 -0800, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
Cites?
cancer is like a lot of infections
often your immune system detects it and kills it
without youre being conscious of it
they show up on some antibody tests
after your body has already detected and killed them
Without being able to create vascular structures to
feed their growth most die of starvation too.
--
Cliff
Cliff
2008-01-06 14:15:33 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:39:40 +0100, Monika Krug
Post by Monika Krug
Post by Cliff
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:54:21 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Post by Lawrence Glickman
Most people who die from *natural causes*
If they live long enough most people die of cancer.
Probably (at least) 50% of those over 50 years of age already
have a cancer.
Cites?
Many cells over a persons's lifetime become cancerous.
Most are killed by the body before becoming a problem.

Ask a cancer specialist. Hard to word a search properly;
just too much out there on the subjects.
Post by Monika Krug
Monika.
--
Cliff
Cliff
2007-12-26 08:38:08 UTC
Permalink
Seems the operation only has a 40% chance of taking
Who sez? Why? They try to not use poor organ
matches to begin with.
and even then the
large doses of anti-rejections drugs required are going to mess up
your system.
They are pretty good these days I gather.
A successful operation would only have prolonged her life
for a couple of years.
Something else was going to kill her soon? What?
If Cigna were my insurance company I would be
glad they didn't pay uber-expensive claims for pie-in-the-sky
treatments.
People with liver transplants often do quite well & for a long
time. Over time the liver is the best organ to transplant it seems.
Many, if not most, don't even need anti-rejection drugs after a
few years.
This girl did not have any of the risk factors for a poor outcome
in the longer term (hepatitis c perhaps) but was her initial core
problem cured or curable?
--
Cliff
D Murphy
2007-12-26 11:21:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Seems the operation only has a 40% chance of taking
Who sez? Why? They try to not use poor organ
matches to begin with.
and even then the
large doses of anti-rejections drugs required are going to mess up
your system.
They are pretty good these days I gather.
A successful operation would only have prolonged her life
for a couple of years.
Something else was going to kill her soon? What?
If Cigna were my insurance company I would be
glad they didn't pay uber-expensive claims for pie-in-the-sky
treatments.
People with liver transplants often do quite well & for a long
time. Over time the liver is the best organ to transplant it seems.
Many, if not most, don't even need anti-rejection drugs after a
few years.
This girl did not have any of the risk factors for a poor outcome
in the longer term (hepatitis c perhaps) but was her initial core
problem cured or curable?
She had leukemia. You need to read better newspapers. She was in
remission for a while, then the cancer came back. She was in the middle
of undergoing a bone marrow transplant. That's where they remove your
marrow, nuke you, then put in donor marrow. During that time you have no
immune system. Her liver failed during her recovery from the marrow
transplant.

The author of the article I read contacted a specialist that does liver
transplants. His opinion was that the anti rejection drugs would have
made her cancer much worse if she didn't get an infection from the
transplant. Cigna conferred with two specialists who also advised
against the transplant. Which is why they denied the claim. BTW, Cigna
agreed to pay after a protest was held.

Moot point. She got a lung infection and no longer qualified whether
Cigna paid or not.

This all transpired between Thanksgiving and now. So it just goes to
show how precarious the girl's condition actually was.
--
Dan

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