Discussion:
It is really getting confusing
(too old to reply)
Cliff
2007-04-12 08:41:03 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 03:18:04 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
A fine example of RepubliKKKan family values...
If you want accuracy KKK would be Southern Democrat or in your
language DemoKKKrat.
Famous Republican saying: "Everything is fine in politics as long as you
don't get caught in bed with a live man, or a dead woman.”

"I add up to a Republican Senate and Republican House. You may end up
with a different math but you are entitled to your math and I'm entitled
to THE math." - Karl Rove

[
Quotes: Family Guy: Peter
[Riding a circus elephant]
Peter: Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a
fat white guy who is threatened by change.
]

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different
results." - Albert Einstein
--
Cliff
b***@aol.com
2007-04-12 14:28:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 03:18:04 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
A fine example of RepubliKKKan family values...
If you want accuracy KKK would be Southern Democrat or in your
language DemoKKKrat.
Famous Republican saying: "Everything is fine in politics as long as you
don't get caught in bed with a live man, or a dead woman.”
Famous Cliffism's:

"I have never answered a direct question and don't intend to start
now."

"I won't let truth get in the way of a good story."

Tom7
Gunner
2007-04-15 02:19:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Cliff
On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 03:18:04 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
A fine example of RepubliKKKan family values...
If you want accuracy KKK would be Southern Democrat or in your
language DemoKKKrat.
Famous Republican saying: "Everything is fine in politics as long as you
don't get caught in bed with a live man, or a dead woman.”
"I have never answered a direct question and don't intend to start
now."
"I won't let truth get in the way of a good story."
Tom7
Actually..that quote is

"The only thing that would keep me from winning the election is to be
caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy - Gov. Edwin Edwards, LA

(Democrat,currently serving 10 yrs in Federal prison for multiple
counts of corruption..after 16 yrs as governor..further proof Democrats
will keep electing crooked Democrats into office..time after time after
time...Edwards being so crooked that if he stood straddle legged over a
parish dividing line..he would cross it in 17 places.



""Hell yes, I think you should use ideals or any other goddamn thing you
can get your hands on - When asked by a young state legislator whether
ideals had any role in politics" Huey Long (D)





We must admit that today conformity is on the left. To be sure, the
right is not brilliant. But the left is in complete decadence, a
prisoner of words, caught in its own vocabulary, capable merely of
stereotyped replies, constantly at a loss when faced with the truth,
from which it nevertheless claimed to derive its laws. The left is
schizophrenic and needs doctoring through pitiless self-criticism,
exercise of the heart, close reasoning, and a little modesty. Until such
an effort at re-examination is well under way, any rallying will be
useless and even harmful. Meanwhile, the intellectual's role will be to
say that the king is naked when he is, and not to go into raptures over
his imaginary trappings. -- Albert Camus, 1957



Gunner

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects. Lazarus Long
Cliff
2007-04-15 10:46:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Cliff
On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 03:18:04 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
A fine example of RepubliKKKan family values...
If you want accuracy KKK would be Southern Democrat or in your
language DemoKKKrat.
Famous Republican saying: "Everything is fine in politics as long as you
don't get caught in bed with a live man, or a dead woman.”
"I have never answered a direct question and don't intend to start
now."
"I won't let truth get in the way of a good story."
Tom7
Actually..that quote is
Wrong yet again, Gunner.
Post by Gunner
Albert Camus, 1957
Who I have actually read & you found someplace <G>.
Post by Gunner
Gunner
For two Browinie points name the famed Republican AND the
dead girl.
After all, you DO know your Republcian history, right?
--
Cliff
Cliff
2007-04-14 11:31:55 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 02:33:55 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
What's not to love?
You mean the kind of Love that Bushie says that OBGYN's should be sharing
with their patients all over the country?
After the then illegal abortion(s) he got his girlfriend(s) with family
connections?

One must just so love neocon & Conservative family values, such
as the ones Gunner so often touts (it only seems to matter that
they don't apply to HIM but MUST to everyone else).

Catch the latest on conservative family-values Wolfowitz? Sounds
like many of the actual professional staff at the World Bank (where
he was turned loose after aiding in creation of the war messes per
HIS plans) are in open revolt.

His girlfriend got US$193,590 per year plus 8% annual pay increases
*tax free* ....

Then herr shrubbie, SureShot & Rove have a new legal defense it seems:
"The dog ate our Emails !!" (Note: Federal government paying for the
repub & neocon party expenses.)
--
Cliff
RONSERESURPLUS
2007-04-14 18:43:06 UTC
Permalink
Flush the Exxon Turds
2007-04-14 19:34:40 UTC
Permalink
I don't know you, or Gunner for that matter, but the way you talk,
you Must me some sort of grand asshole? I have Little use for people
of your type and you';d be best to remember what Moms have told thier
sons for years? If you've nothing good to say about someone, shut the
Hell up? LOL
RON
RONSERESURPLUS's epitaph delivered at his funeral:
"If you can't say anything good about the dead than don't say
anything. He's dead and that's good."
RONSERESURPLUS
2007-04-14 23:01:27 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 14, 2:34?pm, "Flush the Exxon Turds"
Post by Flush the Exxon Turds
"If you can't say anything good about the dead than don't say
anything. He's dead and that's good."
So, what your saying is that you know me neither, but wanna comment?
LOL? What a Moron!




RON
s***@comcast.net
2007-04-14 23:06:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by RONSERESURPLUS
On Apr 14, 2:34?pm, "Flush the Exxon Turds"
Post by Flush the Exxon Turds
"If you can't say anything good about the dead than don't say
anything. He's dead and that's good."
So, what your saying is that you know me neither, but wanna comment?
LOL? What a Moron!
Why are you conversing with some shit fixated socialist sexual pervert?

It's not like any sane person pays him any regard, you know.
RONSERESURPLUS
2007-04-14 23:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-15 07:16:42 UTC
Permalink
You have a really valid point, but I never said I was sane, to any
degree! LOL Thanks for the support, I agree feeding the trolls does no
good, but it is fun time to time!
One must just so love neocon & Conservative family values, such
as the ones Gunner so often touts (it only seems to matter that
they don't apply to HIM but MUST to everyone else).

Catch the latest on conservative family-values Wolfowitz? Sounds
like many of the actual professional staff at the World Bank (where
he was turned loose after aiding in creation of the war messes per
HIS plans) are in open revolt.

His girlfriend got US$193,590 per year plus 8% annual pay increases
*tax free* ....

Then herr shrubbie, SureShot & Rove have a new legal defense it seems:
"The dog ate our Emails !!" (Note: Federal government paying for the
repub & neocon party expenses.)
s***@comcast.net
2007-04-15 14:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@comcast.net
Post by RONSERESURPLUS
On Apr 14, 2:34?pm, "Flush the Exxon Turds"
Post by Flush the Exxon Turds
"If you can't say anything good about the dead than don't say
anything. He's dead and that's good."
� So, what your saying is that you know me neither, but wanna comment?
LOL? What a Moron!
Why are you conversing with some shit fixated socialist sexual pervert?
It's not like any sane person pays him any regard, you know.
STUART
You have a really valid point, but I never said I was sane, to any
degree! LOL Thanks for the support, I agree feeding the trolls does no
good, but it is fun time to time!
As you pointed out when you first came to this group, the Usenet is
lousy with socialist trolls.

I pointed out the same thing. Then I came to realize that the group is
what it is, despite the sad fact that it doesn't live up to its name.
Then I jumped in.

I've made a large killfile to avoid wasting time with the most rabid and
infected trolls, however. :)
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-16 07:26:05 UTC
Permalink
As you pointed out when you first came to this group, the Usenet is lousy
with socialist trolls.
Trolls live under bridges and like good capitalists they prevent people
from crossing unless the troll toll is paid.

It's worth noting here that Conservative Libertarians hold that all
bridges must be sold to private interests and converted to Libertarian Troll
bridges.
I pointed out the same thing. Then I came to realize that the group is
what it is, despite the sad fact that it doesn't live up to its name. Then
I jumped in.
You we could smell your stench for miles, and since your arrival the air
hasn't been the same.
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-16 07:26:48 UTC
Permalink
<***@comcast.net> wrote Nothing but ignorance.

Meanwhile...

One must just so love neocon & Conservative family values, such
as the ones Gunner so often touts (it only seems to matter that
they don't apply to HIM but MUST to everyone else).

Catch the latest on conservative family-values Wolfowitz? Sounds
like many of the actual professional staff at the World Bank (where
he was turned loose after aiding in creation of the war messes per
HIS plans) are in open revolt.

His girlfriend got US$193,590 per year plus 8% annual pay increases
*tax free* ....

Then herr shrubbie, SureShot & Rove have a new legal defense it seems:
"The dog ate our Emails !!" (Note: Federal government paying for the
repub & neocon party expenses.)
Cliff
2007-05-02 11:57:01 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 00:26:48 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Cliff
His girlfriend got US$193,590 per year plus 8% annual pay increases
*tax free* ....
It's ALL tax-free, not just the 8% per year minimum wage hike.
Same for the rest of his buddies I'd wager.
And probably him as well.

The lower working-class stiffs there probably pay taxes. Don't know.
--
Cliff
Cliff
2007-05-02 12:00:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@comcast.net
As you pointed out when you first came to this group, the Usenet is
lousy with socialist trolls.
How can you tell, being a brain-dead winger from Lala land
yourself?
Taken any HS science yet?
--
Cliff
Flush the Exxon Turds
2007-04-15 00:26:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@comcast.net
Post by RONSERESURPLUS
On Apr 14, 2:34?pm, "Flush the Exxon Turds"
Post by Flush the Exxon Turds
"If you can't say anything good about the dead than don't say
anything. He's dead and that's good."
So, what your saying is that you know me neither, but wanna comment?
LOL? What a Moron!
Why are you conversing with some shit fixated socialist sexual pervert?
It's not like any sane person pays him any regard, you know.
It's not like Stuart Grey knows anybody who is sane he could ask, you
know.

Excrement-covered Stuart Grey, no pride, no shame, no brain. Ignore.
Cliff
2007-04-15 10:57:35 UTC
Permalink
On 14 Apr 2007 17:26:21 -0700, "Flush the Exxon Turds"
Post by Flush the Exxon Turds
It's not like Stuart Grey knows anybody who is sane he could ask, you
know.
Excrement-covered Stuart Grey, no pride, no shame, no brain. Ignore.
Many of his "science" posts are pretty funny.
--
Cliff
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-15 07:16:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@comcast.net
Why are you conversing with some shit fixated socialist sexual pervert?
One must just so love neocon & Conservative family values, such
as the ones Gunner so often touts (it only seems to matter that
they don't apply to HIM but MUST to everyone else).

Catch the latest on conservative family-values Wolfowitz? Sounds
like many of the actual professional staff at the World Bank (where
he was turned loose after aiding in creation of the war messes per
HIS plans) are in open revolt.

His girlfriend got US$193,590 per year plus 8% annual pay increases
*tax free* ....

Then herr shrubbie, SureShot & Rove have a new legal defense it seems:
"The dog ate our Emails !!" (Note: Federal government paying for the
repub & neocon party expenses.)
Gunner
2007-04-15 09:33:16 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:16:11 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Cliff
Post by s***@comcast.net
Why are you conversing with some shit fixated socialist sexual pervert?
One must just so love neocon & Conservative family values, such
as the ones Gunner so often touts (it only seems to matter that
they don't apply to HIM but MUST to everyone else).
Catch the latest on conservative family-values Wolfowitz? Sounds
like many of the actual professional staff at the World Bank (where
he was turned loose after aiding in creation of the war messes per
HIS plans) are in open revolt.
His girlfriend got US$193,590 per year plus 8% annual pay increases
*tax free* ....
"The dog ate our Emails !!" (Note: Federal government paying for the
repub & neocon party expenses.)
Lets not forget the lobbyist wife of Tom Daschel (D) who knocks back
$250k a year lobbying with Democrat projects....

And a host of other Democrats who moonlight as influence peddlers for a
fee.....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/the-marriage-of-corruptio_b_44529.html


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects. Lazarus Long
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2007-04-15 11:41:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by Cliff
"The dog ate our Emails !!" (Note: Federal government paying for the
repub & neocon party expenses.)
Lets not forget the lobbyist wife of Tom Daschel (D) who knocks back
$250k a year lobbying with Democrat projects....
what i noticed about this is shrubettes were using a private email
set up to discuss partisan politics
thereby declaring that the attorney firings were partisan politics
and not routine executive business

also daschle and his family have not violated any laws
you know about this because they are obeying lobby and financing laws
unlike say jack abramoff or tom delay

the email deletion is a violation of federal law
given shrubs past dedication to equal enforcement of the law
i expect him to do nothing
Post by Gunner
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
you should be able to think
we all have to live with our disappointments

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
john
2007-04-15 18:30:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:16:11 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Cliff
Post by s***@comcast.net
Why are you conversing with some shit fixated socialist sexual pervert?
One must just so love neocon & Conservative family values, such
as the ones Gunner so often touts (it only seems to matter that
they don't apply to HIM but MUST to everyone else).
Catch the latest on conservative family-values Wolfowitz? Sounds
like many of the actual professional staff at the World Bank (where
he was turned loose after aiding in creation of the war messes per
HIS plans) are in open revolt.
His girlfriend got US$193,590 per year plus 8% annual pay increases
*tax free* ....
"The dog ate our Emails !!" (Note: Federal government paying for the
repub & neocon party expenses.)
Lets not forget the lobbyist wife of Tom Daschel (D) who knocks back
$250k a year lobbying with Democrat projects....
And a host of other Democrats who moonlight as influence peddlers for a
fee.....
You are pretty naive if you think only the democrats do that. The
republicans are just as bad, and until people realize that both parties
are corrupted by the lobbyists and their campaign contributions ( read
bribery the average taxpaying citizen gets crushed in the stampede for
money.

I guess you really like the medicare bill they passed illegally last
year guaranteeing they drug company's list price and above on all their
pills.

John
Gunner
2007-04-16 05:13:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by john
Post by Gunner
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:16:11 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Cliff
Post by s***@comcast.net
Why are you conversing with some shit fixated socialist sexual pervert?
One must just so love neocon & Conservative family values, such
as the ones Gunner so often touts (it only seems to matter that
they don't apply to HIM but MUST to everyone else).
Catch the latest on conservative family-values Wolfowitz? Sounds
like many of the actual professional staff at the World Bank (where
he was turned loose after aiding in creation of the war messes per
HIS plans) are in open revolt.
His girlfriend got US$193,590 per year plus 8% annual pay increases
*tax free* ....
"The dog ate our Emails !!" (Note: Federal government paying for the
repub & neocon party expenses.)
Lets not forget the lobbyist wife of Tom Daschel (D) who knocks back
$250k a year lobbying with Democrat projects....
And a host of other Democrats who moonlight as influence peddlers for a
fee.....
You are pretty naive if you think only the democrats do that. The
republicans are just as bad, and until people realize that both parties
are corrupted by the lobbyists and their campaign contributions ( read
bribery the average taxpaying citizen gets crushed in the stampede for
money.
The op made it clear he thought only the Republicans did that...so I
showed him he was a hypocrit. And thanks for the confirmation.
Post by john
I guess you really like the medicare bill they passed illegally last
year guaranteeing they drug company's list price and above on all their
pills.
John
Illegally? How so? SCOTUS found it unlawful? Be specific.

Say HI! to Ray Nagin and his Chocolate City while you are doing the
research.

Gunner

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects. Lazarus Long
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-16 07:30:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Lets not forget the lobbyist wife of Tom Daschel (D) who knocks back
$250k a year lobbying with Democrat projects....
Did Daschel order her employers to "agree to an immediate wage increase of
8%" as Wolfowitz ordered?

And did Daschel order her employer to dishonestly redefine her as an
independent contractor - whose label was to be decided by her - in order to
dishonestly keep her on the staff and on the payroll?

I have never encountered a RepubliKKKan/NeoKKKon who wasn't a perpetual
liar.

The only good KKKonservative is a Dead KKKonservative.
Cliff
2007-04-15 10:55:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@comcast.net
Why are you conversing with some shit fixated socialist sexual pervert?
It's not like any sane person pays him any regard, you know.
Found those "WMDs" yet?
--
Cliff
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-15 07:14:58 UTC
Permalink
If you've nothing good to say about someone, shut the
Hell up? LOL
Translation: RepubliKKKan corruption is a non-issue. Just ignore it
because high crimes committed by RepubliKKKans are to be ignored by the
RepubliKKKan faithful.
RONSERESURPLUS
2007-04-15 19:30:06 UTC
Permalink
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-16 07:31:57 UTC
Permalink
Ah Yes, your SOOO Right? Those years with carter, Clintoon and
others were such an example of Morality, Virtue and Clean living?/ LOL
man, get a grip, your wig is slipping?
Yup, they indeed were.
Gunner
2007-04-16 19:33:32 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 00:31:57 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Ah Yes, your SOOO Right? Those years with carter, Clintoon and
others were such an example of Morality, Virtue and Clean living?/ LOL
man, get a grip, your wig is slipping?
Yup, they indeed were.
Only if you are West Hollywood native.


Gunner


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects. Lazarus Long
Mass Murderers COALition
2007-04-16 19:50:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 00:31:57 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Ah Yes, your SOOO Right? Those years with carter, Clintoon and
others were such an example of Morality, Virtue and Clean living?/ LOL
man, get a grip, your wig is slipping?
Yup, they indeed were.
Only if you are West Hollywood native.
Gunner
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects. Lazarus Long
A human being should not shit in his nest.

A human being should fix his environmental damage.

Lazarus Long is a fictional character who has sexual intercourse with
his mother and twin sisters, has multiple homosexual acts and is
gunners role model.
Gunner
2007-04-17 02:04:14 UTC
Permalink
On 16 Apr 2007 12:50:19 -0700, "Mass Murderers COALition"
Post by Mass Murderers COALition
Post by Gunner
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 00:31:57 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Ah Yes, your SOOO Right? Those years with carter, Clintoon and
others were such an example of Morality, Virtue and Clean living?/ LOL
man, get a grip, your wig is slipping?
Yup, they indeed were.
Only if you are West Hollywood native.
Gunner
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects. Lazarus Long
A human being should not shit in his nest.
A human being should fix his environmental damage.
Lazarus Long is a fictional character who has sexual intercourse with
his mother and twin sisters, has multiple homosexual acts and is
gunners role model.
Your Mom is a great fuck.

Now I take it you have never read the "classics". Sounds like
Shakespears works.

Gunner

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects. Lazarus Long
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-17 06:37:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Your Mom is a great fuck.
Funny, that's not what she said about you. But of course she was 72 at
the time.
Gunner
2007-04-17 09:05:57 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:37:05 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Your Mom is a great fuck.
Funny, that's not what she said about you. But of course she was 72 at
the time.
Her ass was still pretty tight. Though she said you had a thicker dick
and liked it better.

Gunner

"I don't want to abolish government.
I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can
drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
-- Grover Norquist
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-17 19:08:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Funny, that's not what she said about you. But of course she was 72 at
the time.
Her ass was still pretty tight.
She said you liked it when she shit on your cock.
Post by Gunner
Though she said you had a thicker dick and liked it better.
What makes you think I'm a guy?
Gunner
2007-04-22 03:20:40 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:08:11 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Funny, that's not what she said about you. But of course she was 72 at
the time.
Her ass was still pretty tight.
She said you liked it when she shit on your cock.
Hell..there was shit on it when I pulled it out. Giving her the Dirty
Sanchez was the crowing touch.
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Though she said you had a thicker dick and liked it better.
What makes you think I'm a guy?
Cause you are way too stupid to be a woman.

Gunner

"I don't want to abolish government.
I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can
drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
-- Grover Norquist
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-22 03:41:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Hell..there was shit on it when I pulled it out.
Ya, she said you liked that the most.
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
What makes you think I'm a guy?
Cause you are way too stupid to be a woman.
Gunner
So you suffer from a sexual inferiority complex as well.

No wonder you like to have you dick shit on.
Gunner
2007-04-22 06:06:39 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 20:41:09 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Hell..there was shit on it when I pulled it out.
Ya, she said you liked that the most.
She seemed to enjoy the Dirty Sanchez.
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
What makes you think I'm a guy?
Cause you are way too stupid to be a woman.
Gunner
So you suffer from a sexual inferiority complex as well.
Huh? Where did you get that buffoonish idea?

Oh..I ferget..you are stupid. Mea Culpa.....
Post by Vendicar Decarian
No wonder you like to have you dick shit on.
Gunner

"I don't want to abolish government.
I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can
drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
-- Grover Norquist
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2007-04-22 06:21:28 UTC
Permalink
oh we definitely have to cross fertilize with soc-men
Post by Gunner
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 20:41:09 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Hell..there was shit on it when I pulled it out.
Ya, she said you liked that the most.
She seemed to enjoy the Dirty Sanchez.
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
What makes you think I'm a guy?
Cause you are way too stupid to be a woman.
Gunner
So you suffer from a sexual inferiority complex as well.
Huh? Where did you get that buffoonish idea?
Oh..I ferget..you are stupid. Mea Culpa.....
Post by Vendicar Decarian
No wonder you like to have you dick shit on.
Gunner
"I don't want to abolish government.
I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can
drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
-- Grover Norquist
meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-22 08:49:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
She seemed to enjoy the Dirty Sanchez.
Unknown, but says you enjoyed having her 72 year old shit on your dick.
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Cause you are way too stupid to be a woman.
Gunner
So you suffer from a sexual inferiority complex as well.
Huh? Where did you get that buffoonish idea?
Well, since you are obviously inferior to me, and since you claim I am
inferior to any woman, then it follows that you are as well.

a<b<c -> a<c

Flunk math Gunner?
Post by Gunner
"I don't want to abolish government.
I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can
drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
Excellent. I can think of no better way to destroy the AmeriKKKan state.
Gunner
2007-04-22 18:14:59 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 01:49:19 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
She seemed to enjoy the Dirty Sanchez.
Unknown, but says you enjoyed having her 72 year old shit on your dick.
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Cause you are way too stupid to be a woman.
Gunner
So you suffer from a sexual inferiority complex as well.
Huh? Where did you get that buffoonish idea?
Well, since you are obviously inferior to me, and since you claim I am
inferior to any woman, then it follows that you are as well.
a<b<c -> a<c
Flunk math Gunner?
No..I actually did quite well in it. However you are starting off with a
fatally flawed assumption. that being Im inferior to you. Which of
course is obvously wrong to anyone with more than 3 firing neurons.

Shrug...sorry for your inability to see this.

Perhaps you should apply for a handicapped sticker?

Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
"I don't want to abolish government.
I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can
drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
Excellent. I can think of no better way to destroy the AmeriKKKan state.
"I don't want to abolish government.
I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can
drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
-- Grover Norquist
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-22 21:13:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
No..I actually did quite well in it. However you are starting off with a
fatally flawed assumption. that being Im inferior to you.
Well that is just self evident. Fuck even your chosen name proclaims you
inferiority.
Cliff
2007-04-22 22:01:53 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 14:13:03 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
No..I actually did quite well in it. However you are starting off with a
fatally flawed assumption. that being Im inferior to you.
Well that is just self evident. Fuck even your chosen name proclaims you
inferiority.
Sometimes a gun is not a cigar.
--
Cliff
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-22 22:14:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Sometimes a gun is not a cigar.
You mean, sometimes it's a shit stained cigar?
Gunner
2007-04-23 08:03:44 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 14:13:03 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
No..I actually did quite well in it. However you are starting off with a
fatally flawed assumption. that being Im inferior to you.
Well that is just self evident. Fuck even your chosen name proclaims you
inferiority.
Self evident to you? Obviously then my claim about your stupidity is
valid.

Read a lot of Kirst, eh?

Snicker..laugh laugh laugh....

Gunner Asch


"I don't want to abolish government.
I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can
drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
-- Grover Norquist
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-23 11:07:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Well that is just self evident. Fuck even your chosen name proclaims you
inferiority.
Self evident to you? Obviously then my claim about your stupidity is
valid.
For the last 10 or so messages in this thread you have publicly accepted
and confirmed the assertion that you like
to have72 year old women, shit on you cock.

Yes.. Quite self evident.

Not to you of course, but then little is self evident to the sufficiently
inferior.
Gunner
2007-04-23 17:38:54 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 04:07:10 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Well that is just self evident. Fuck even your chosen name proclaims you
inferiority.
Self evident to you? Obviously then my claim about your stupidity is
valid.
For the last 10 or so messages in this thread you have publicly accepted
and confirmed the assertion that you like
to have72 year old women, shit on you cock.
Shrug...its your mom..you should take better care of her needs like she
asks.
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Yes.. Quite self evident.
Not to you of course, but then little is self evident to the sufficiently
inferior.
My irony meter just exploded.

Gunner
"I don't want to abolish government.
I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can
drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
-- Grover Norquist
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-24 05:18:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Shrug...its your mom..you should take better care of her needs like she
asks.
She is long dead Gunner. Obviously your being shit on by another old
woman.
Gunner
2007-04-24 05:43:38 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:18:31 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Shrug...its your mom..you should take better care of her needs like she
asks.
She is long dead Gunner. Obviously your being shit on by another old
woman.
My last request to you was asking if you were going to post something
intelligent. Evidently not.

Lowering myself to your 3rd grade level was fun for a while, but has
become boring. You have used up all your entertainment value, like a
2nd rate hack comedian. The first few routines were fun..but now have
gotten old and tiresome.

So with that Ill bid you adieu..and may you have a short and agony
filled life.

<plink>

Dont call us, we'll call you.


Gunner Asch

"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for Western civilization as
it commits suicide"
- James Burnham
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-24 21:43:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
My last request to you was asking if you were going to post something
intelligent. Evidently not.
You have made no requests Gunner, just repeaded asmissions that you like to
have old women shit on youir cock followed by some incoherent rambling about
wanting to fuck my dead mother followed by some comments about wanting to
destroy government.
Post by Gunner
Lowering myself to your 3rd grade level was fun for a while, but has
become boring.
Gonna go out crusin for another old ladie to fuck Gunner?

Maybe you can get one to piss on you too - make your day.
Bush Lost Iraq War
2007-04-23 18:15:31 UTC
Permalink
Gunner is a Cho Seung-Hui of Usenet.

Gunner is Choosing You to be a victim of Mass Murder.

Like Cho Seung-Hui, Gunner is a sociopath utterly without pity for his
randomly chosen victims -- it's just a violent video game for him,
where he tries for the "most points" using weather of mass
destruction. 20,000 dead in France from Heat Wave, 3,000 wacked in New
Orleans, just points to keep score.

The longer you stay unaware that your death is his goal, the more his
words can infect you like poison to delay your self-defense plan.

Global Warming briefings were being given to tobacco company
executives two decades ago, while they were in the midst of carrying
out serial murders of 400,000 Americans per year with delay tactics of
hired science-falsifiers. They loaned part of their propaganda
apparatus to the OILY INC liars to delay actions on Global Warming, as
the court records show as early as 1988.

It wasn't until 1998 that the evidence came to light in courts of law,
but nine years later the same people are still doing the same frauds.

Since 1988 to 1998, 4 million Americans were killed by frauds that
said that the science on tobacco was unsettled. These are willful
deliberate premeditated murders, using people like Gunner to spread
their message.

Since 1998 another 3.6 million have been murdered by falsified science
"debate" keeping the settled science from being taken seriously by
thew victims of opportunity whom have been knowingly addicted by
corporate serial murderers, and their henchmen like Gunner.

The A.S.S. Coalition (TASSC) & Global Warming
http://TobaccoDocuments.org Court Records

http://tobaccodocuments.org/landman/158433.html
Abstract
To circumvent its lack of credibility with the public, policy makers
and the media, Philip Morris (PM) uses the strategy of creating front
groups. Forming an artificial third party and then assigning it an
"umbrella cause" (one which happens to mesh perfectly with the tobacco
industry's) gives PM and the industry the opportunity to create a
wholly separate, and far more credible, mouthpiece advance its
policies and political desires. In PM's front group "Associates for
Research in Substance Enjoyment," (ARISE) "scientists" lumped tobacco
use together with innocuous substances like tea and chocolate, put out
worldwide press releases saying substance use was good for you and
declared public health advocates to be puritanical, neo-prohibitionist
party poopers. After the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
declared secondhand smoke as a Class A Human Carcinogen, PM needed a
powerful group to rise up help discredit EPA's findings. Thus PM
formed "The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition," or TASSC.
Recognizing that the chemical, paper, metal, petroleum and other
environmentally-dubious industries would also be thrilled to have a
group of "committed experts" who would publicly say that scientific
warnings against their activities were not credible, PM invited these
industries to join TASSC. With the needs clear and a host of willing
help-mates waiting in the wings, PM created TASSC through a public
relations firm called APCO Associates, which helped PM distance itself
from the group. After a 2-month, $50,000 feasibility study done hand
in hand with PM's law firm of Covington and Burling, APCO began
forming TASSC. APCO did an admirable job of recruiting members for
TASSC, too. The "supporters list" (found in another document) includes
businesses from the "Family Loompya Seafood Market" and "Pinckneyville
Lighting" to sawmills, mining and chemical companies, including W.R.
Grace, Co., Amoco, and Dow Chemical. Today's document reveals the
goals of TASSC, and also APCO's enthusiasm for creating a similar
group in Europe based on its success in America and elsewhere. Title:
Thoughts on TASSC Europe Type of Document: Memo From: Tom Hockaday of
APCO Associates To: Matt Winokur, Director, Worldwide Regulatory
Affairs for Philip Morris Date: 19940324 Site: Philip Morris Tobacco
Company http://www.pmdocs.com/ Bates No. 2025492898/2905 Page Count: 8
URL: http://www.pmdocs.com/getallimg.asp?DOCID=2025492898/2905

03/28/94 15:25 '8`202 466 6004 APCO ASSOCIATES 0004 -3 - As a starting
point, we can identify key issues requiring sound scientific research
and scientists that may have an interest in them. Some issues our
European colleagues suggest include: . Global warming · Nuclear waste
disposal · Diseases and pests in agricultural products for
transborder trade · Biotechnology . Eco-labeling for EC products

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2024233595-3602.html
Thoughts on Tassc Europe
Date: 25 Mar 1994

-3- As a starting point, we can identify key issues requiring sound
scientific research and scientists that may have an interest in them.
Some issues our European colleagues suggest include: . Global
warming . Nuclear waste disposal . Diseases and pests in agricultural
products for transborder trade . Biotechnology . Eco-labeling for EC
products . Food processing and packaging

-5- decisions. The supporters of the Appeal are a loose-knit group.
The effort to expand the support of the Appeal is handled through Dr.
M. Saloman of the International Center for Scientific Ecology (Paris).

In discussions with a number of our scientific supporters and with Dr.
Fred Singer (a member of the Board of the International Center for
Scientific Ecology), there is belief that this initial support could
be organized into a more "formal movement" internationally. The
benefits of attempting to use this group as a basis of extending TASSC
include: Several of TASSC's scientists have signed the Appeal,
providing the opportunity to approach the supporters with a "peer to
peer" approach, i.e. , a "Dear Colleague" letter.

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/nysa_ti_m2/TI15842109.html
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 28, 1993 THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER A truth squad
for monitoring shaky science
Date: 28 Dec 1993

TASSC should work to make fiascos like the Alar scare as familiar to
students as rain forests or global warming.

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/mayo_clinic/82000099.html
TASSC The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition

"It is neither reasonable nor prudent for major political decisions to
be based on presumptions which, in the current state of knowledge, are
still only hypotheses, although they must certainly be examined and
even taken into account. The more or less apocalyptic scenarios evoked
in the preparatory, work for the Rio conference are not the kind of
certitudes which can be used as a basis for political decisions likely
to entail major upheavals and heavy expenditure on a global scale."
~Michael Salomon, Editorial Director, Projections Quarterly, Autumn-
Winter 1992

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2028363773-3791.html
Scientists for Sound Public Policy Assessment Project and Symposium
Date: 1994 (est.)
Length: 19 pages

EXPLANATIONS · The political decision-makers are vulnerable to
activists' emotional appeals and press campaigns · The opinion climate
tends to favour overly simplified solutions The precautionary
principle is now the accepted guideline. Even if a hypothesis is not
100 per cent scientifically proven, action should be taken, e.g.
global warming Europe's industry is often on the defensive. Action is
typically taken when it is too late. And industrial resistence is
perceived as protection of commercial self-interests.

Burson-Marsteller

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2025493202-3207.html
Date: 26 Apr 1994 (est.)
Length: 6 pages

Many industries trying to establish groups to "communicate science"
and "to lobby" EUFIC (food industry) SAGB (biotechnology) Heidelberg
Appeal (global warming)

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2024102283-2287.html
Date: 1992 (est.)
Length: 5 pages

SEITZ SYMPOSIUM
*Late lst quarter/early 2nd quarter
*Procedural Options for Addressing the Scientific Issue Highlighted in
Global Warming and Ozone Hole Controversies, Dr. Frederick Seitz of
the George C. Marshall Institute
*40-60 regulators--Ensure credible science
*TASSC

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2046451070-1139.html
Science, Economics, and Environmental Policy: A Critical Examination
Date: 11 Aug 1994
Length: 70 pages

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2025802450-2451.html
Scientific Integrity in the Public Policy Process Semi-Final Program
930524 - 930525 the Madison Hotel 15th and M Streets, Nw Washington,
D.C.
Date: 19930525/D
Length: 2 pages

CONFERENCE OVERVIEW: From global warming and ozone depletion to
biotechnology and food additives

Dr.. S. Fred Singer (Moderator) University of Virginia; president, The
Science & Environmental Policy Project

Dr. S. Fred Singer, president The Science & Environmental Policy
Project. 9:15

===============
Environmental Tobacco Smoke
Date: 09 Dec 1996
Length: 13 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/batco/800298146-8158.html

Press Release of The Science & Environmental Policy Project "TOP FIVE
ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY 'MYTHS' OF 1995 TO BE RELEASED BY SCIENCE AND
ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY PROJECT: List Challenges Costly Policies Not
Supported By Sound Scientific Data," January 10, 1996

===============
Philip Morris
Date: 31 Mar 1993
Length: 1 page
2025802449
Jump To Images
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2025802449.html

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2021178213-8216.html
Philip Morris
Possible Individuals to Be Approached for Opinion Editorials
Date: 02 Mar 1993
Length: 4 pages

Candace Crandall -- Executive Vice President of the Science and
Environmental Policy Project (SEPP).

She has published extensively on junk science issues in the past.
Crandall' was the Director of Communications for the Center for
Strategic and International' Studies before joining, SEPP. The primary
focus of SEPP is too document the use of scientific data in the
development of federal environmental policy. SEPP is an independent,
non-profi research group that relies on private funding.

It will co-sponsor a conference with George Mason University in May on
scientific integrity in the political process, Crandall has arranged
for a number of prominent scientists to be participants, including Dr.
Bernard Davis of Harvard University and1 Sir William Mitchell of'
Oxford University.

Crandall is Dr: Fred Singer's wife.

===============
Issue Report Alexis Whither Environmental Regulation
Date: 01 Jul 1993
Length: 6 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/nysa_ti_s2/TI31741185.html

Dr. S. Fred Singer is Professor of Environmental Sciences at the
University of Virginia and directs the Washington- based Science &
Environmental Policy Project. He is currently working on a study on
environmental regulation for the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution.

===============
Philip Morris
Anthology of 950000's Environmental Myths
Date: 11 Feb 1996
Length: 3 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2048280356-0358.html

Copyright 1996 News World Communications, Inc. The Washington Times
February 11, 1996, Sunday, Final Edition SECTION: Part B; COMMENTARY;
Pg. B3 LENGTH: 1377 words HEADLINE: Anthology of 1995's environmental
myths BYLINE: S. Fred Singer

BODY: The primary mission of the Science & Environmental Policy
Project has been to study and analyze how science is used - or
missused - in the setting of federal environmental policies, and then
expose the most egregious examples of environmental malfeasance. There
are so many: Superfund, asbestos, Alar, acid rain, to mention just a
few - all of them costing mega-billions and backed by insubstantial
science. When we decided to list the greatest environmental myths of
1995, our board _ of experts finally settled on the following five
topics that demonstrate distortion or misuse of science in shaping
policies. We present them here to educate policy-makers and the public
in the hope that the publicity will lead to more cost-effective
policies and a healthier environment. (1) Global warming and the
Climate Treaty: During 1995, scare stories about a future catastrophic
greenhouse warming gained much momentum, while at the same time the
evidence for such warming became weaker and weaker. At the first
"Conference of the Parties" to the Global Climate Treaty in Berlin in
April, the science was ignored while the assembled "statesmen" went
ahead to establish a permanent secretariat and plan further mega-
meetings. In September, at the initiative of Al Gore, a Washington
conference promoted a new fear tied to global warming: a spread of
tropical diseases putting 3 billion people at risk. Finally, in
November (in Madrid) and December (in Rome), the U.N.-sponsored
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the scientific arm
of the Treaty, managed to approve two pre-drafted summary reports.
These can charitably be described as being "economical with the
truth."...

===============
Philip Morris
Is the Concept of Linear Relationship Between Dose and Effect Still A
Valid Model for Assessing Risk Related to Low Doses of Carcinogens? A
Restricted International Scientific Seminar 930510 - Paris (France)
Date: 10 May 1993
Length: 5 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2028385383-5387.html

International Center for a Scientific Ecology Is the concept of linear
relationship between dose and effoct still a valid model for assessing
risk related to low doses of ets? A restricted international
scienfific Seminar May 10, 1993 - Paris (France)

The seminar is organised by the International Centre for a Scientific
Ecology (see Introduction to the Centre in the appendix). The
scientific work is organised by Dr Michel Salomon, the coordinator of
the Heidelberg Appeal.

Prof. S. Fred Singer, Doctor of Physical Science; President of the
Science & Environmental Policy Project; former Director, US Weather
Satellite Program; Dean of the School of Environmental Sciences,
University of Miami; Deputy Assistant Administrator of US
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); American. nationality;

Dr. Michel Salomon, coordinator of the Heidelberg Appeal; former
science journalist; magazine editor; French nationality.

===============
Philip Morris
Dr. S. Fred Singer, Director the Science and Environmental Policy
Project
Date: 08 Mar 1993 (est.)
Length: 1 page
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2021178209.html

===============
Brown & Williamson
Public Affairs Strategies.
Date: 1900
Length: 4 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/bw/1059809.html

(#8) SCIENCE & ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY PROJECT From a strategic
standpoint, we believed the most effective way to publicize the report
would be through a credibl]e highly respected "third party".

So we brought the report to the attention of the 'Science &
Environmental Policy Project", SEPP, as it is known, is a Fairfax,
Va., think-tank that studies and analyzes how science is used in
federal policy-making and encourages the use of sound science. After
reading the CRS report, SEPP was equally concerned the EPA's
conclusions and agreed more visibility was in ***@er.

{#9) SEPP NEWS RELEASE With B&W's assistance, SEEP launched a media
relations campaign in January calling attention to the "Top Five
Environmental Myths of 1995." While such issues as "global warming"
and radon were on the list, the focus was on ETS.

(#10) WASHINGTON TIMES "OP ED" In addition to news releases, SEPP
wrote "Op ed" pieces and conducted interviews on radio and television.
SEPP is continuing the "environmental myths" campaign, extending
discussion of the subject to speeches by Dr. Fred Singer, SEPP's
executive director. It's one strategy to help balance the debate.

===============
Mayo Clinic
Length: 37 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/mayo_clinic/85002238.html

THE INTERNATIONAL CENTER FOR A SCIENTIFIC ECOLOGY The Center has been
created at the beginning of 1993 under the French law for nomprolit
organizations.

The Board of the Center includes in particular:
- Mr Pierre Joly. President of the Association Francaise pour la
Recherche Therapeutique : former President of the International
Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers Association ;

- Mr Constant Burg. honorary member of the State Council ; honorary
managing director of INSERM : President of the lnstitut Curie:

- Mr Gilbert Rutman. chief mining engineer: President of the Conseil
Natioflal des Ingenieurs et des Scientifiques de France:

- Prof. S. Fred Singer. Doctor of Physical Science : President of the
Science & Environmental Policy Project : former Director US Weather
Satellite Program : Dean of the School of Environmental Sciences.
University of Miami : Deputy Assistant Administrator of US
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) :

- Mr Gary Nash. Secretary General of the International Council on
Metals and the Environment (ICME) : former Director General in the
Canada Department of Energy. Mines und Resources :

- Dr. Michel Salomon, coordinator of the Heidelberg Appeal ; former
science journalist : magazine editor.

===============
Philip Morris
Top Five Environmental Policy "Myths" of 950000 to Be Released by
Science and Environmental Policy Project
Date: 1995 (est.)
Length: 1 page
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2065122118.html

===============
Philip Morris
the Delaney Clause - Linchpin of the Environmental Policy Edifice
Date: 10 May 1993
Length: 4 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2501171259-1262.html

The Delaney Clause-Linchpin of the Environmental Policy Edifice Prof.
S. Fred Singer

S. Fred Singer Director, Science & Environmental Policy Project
Arlington, Virginia

===============
Philip Morris
Junk Science at the Epa
Date: 08 Mar 1993 (est.)
Length: 3 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2021178206-8208.html

S. Fred Singer Visiting fellovv at the Hoover Institution at Stanford
University and President of the Washington. D C.-baed Science &
Environrnental Policy Project

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2065122122.html
Philip Morris
Sepp - Environmental Myths of 950000 - Smt Participant Broadcast
Details
Date: 1995 (est.)
Length: 1 page

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2065122119-2121.html
Philip Morris
Top Five Environmental Policy "Myths" of 950000 to Be Released by
Science and Environmental Policy Project
Date: 10 Jan 1996
Length: 3 pages

===============
Philip Morris
Seminar of 930510 on the Linear Relationship
Date: 31 Mar 1993
Length: 3 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2028443741-3743.html

Opening speech by Chairman of the Seminar, Prof. Bruce N. Ames
(Biologist'4 Dir., Nat. Inst. of EnvironmentallHealth Sciences Center,
Berkeley, U.S.A.). 9/9.20 a.m. · How biofogically based modeis may
help extrapolating cancer risk to low doses.

· The Delaney amendment and its consequences on the American
regufation. Prof. S. Fred Singer (Physicist, former Dir., US Weather
Satellite Program; President, Science & Environmental Policy Project,
U'.S.A.). 10.20/10.30 a.m.

Noon · Case studies: Predictions and reality. - The Arsenic case.
Prof. Gerhard Stohrer (former chief, Dept!. of chemical risk, Research
Inst. Sloan-Kettering~ U.S.A.).

The DDT case. Dr. William Hazeltine (Ph.D., entomo!bgist, former
Manager of mosquito abatement in California, U.S:A.).

===============
Philip Morris
Update 930419
Date: 19 Apr 1993
Length: 7 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2025475593-5599.html

CONFERENCE/MEETING: Scientific Integrity in the Public Process
SPONSOR: International Institute of George Mason University and the
Science and Environmental Policy Project DATE: May 24-25, 1993
LOCATION: The Madison Hotel, Washington, DC TELEPHONE NUMBER:
703-993-8200

===============
BATCo
[Note from Heather Cooke to Tom Fitzgerald regarding report issued by
The Science & Environmental Policy Project SEPP]
Date: 27 Feb 1996
Length: 1 page
http://tobaccodocuments.org/batco/700520244.html

BRITISH-AMERICAN TOBACCO COMPANY LIMITED To: FACSIMILE MR TOM
FITZGERALD I From: HEATHER COOKE Company: Brown & Williamson Phone
01784 448045 'Tobacco Corp Number: Fax No: Fax No: 0"784 448654 Date:
27/02/96 Pages To Follow: 3 Comments: I am trying to get hold of a
report issued by The Science & Environmental Policy Project (SEPP)
which relates to the attached press release. Do you have a copy that
you can fax to me or know where I might be able to get hold of a copy?
Many thanks Heather Cooke Administrator, Smoking Issues

===============
Philip Morris
Toxic Policy at Dead End: the Case of Arsenic
Date: 10 May 1993 (est.)
Length: 6 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2502146148-6153.html

International Center for a Scientific Ecology Seminar on linear risk
assessment May 10, 1993 Toxic Policy at Dead End: The Case of Arsenic
Gerhard Strohrer Science and Environmental Policy Project 2101 Wilson
Boulevard, Suite 1003 Arlington, Virginia 22201

===============
Philip Morris
Give Industry A Bigger Science Rol
Date: 19921229/P
Length: 1 page
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2074144040.html

Patrick J. Michaels is associate professor of environmental sciences
at the University Virginia and is affiliated with the Washington-based
Science & Environment Policy Project. The Science & Environmental
Policy Project, 2101 Wilson Blvd., #1003, Arlington, VA 22201 .(703)
527-0130

===============
Gunner
2007-04-23 23:17:16 UTC
Permalink
On 23 Apr 2007 11:15:31 -0700, Bush Lost Iraq War
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
Gunner is a Cho Seung-Hui of Usenet.
Gunner is Choosing You to be a victim of Mass Murder.
of course. But only liberals and libtards.
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
Like Cho Seung-Hui, Gunner is a sociopath utterly without pity for his
randomly chosen victims -- it's just a violent video game for him,
where he tries for the "most points" using weather of mass
destruction. 20,000 dead in France from Heat Wave, 3,000 wacked in New
Orleans, just points to keep score.
Geeze..I get brownie points for the dead Frogs too? AllRIGHTY!!!
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
The longer you stay unaware that your death is his goal, the more his
words can infect you like poison to delay your self-defense plan.
We stab'em, you slab'em!

Peace through superior firepower!

Nuke a gay baby whale for JeeeeesuS!!!

Better dead then a Liberal (they are only dead from the neck up)
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
Global Warming briefings were being given to tobacco company
executives two decades ago, while they were in the midst of carrying
out serial murders of 400,000 Americans per year with delay tactics of
hired science-falsifiers. They loaned part of their propaganda
apparatus to the OILY INC liars to delay actions on Global Warming, as
the court records show as early as 1988.
I thought Global Warming was Bush's fault? Now you are claiming its RJ
Reynolds?
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
It wasn't until 1998 that the evidence came to light in courts of law,
but nine years later the same people are still doing the same frauds.
But we voted him out of office in 2000.
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
Since 1988 to 1998, 4 million Americans were killed by frauds that
said that the science on tobacco was unsettled. These are willful
deliberate premeditated murders, using people like Gunner to spread
their message.
Sounds an Awful lot like Liberalism doesnt it?
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
Since 1998 another 3.6 million have been murdered by falsified science
"debate" keeping the settled science from being taken seriously by
thew victims of opportunity whom have been knowingly addicted by
corporate serial murderers, and their henchmen like Gunner.
And a damned good Henchman I am too! Im a member of the Henchmens Union
and everything!
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
The A.S.S. Coalition (TASSC) & Global Warming
http://TobaccoDocuments.org Court Records
http://tobaccodocuments.org/landman/158433.html
Abstract
To circumvent its lack of credibility with the public, policy makers
and the media, Philip Morris (PM) uses the strategy of creating front
groups. Forming an artificial third party and then assigning it an
"umbrella cause" (one which happens to mesh perfectly with the tobacco
industry's) gives PM and the industry the opportunity to create a
wholly separate, and far more credible, mouthpiece advance its
policies and political desires. In PM's front group "Associates for
Research in Substance Enjoyment," (ARISE) "scientists" lumped tobacco
use together with innocuous substances like tea and chocolate, put out
worldwide press releases saying substance use was good for you and
declared public health advocates to be puritanical, neo-prohibitionist
party poopers. After the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
declared secondhand smoke as a Class A Human Carcinogen, PM needed a
powerful group to rise up help discredit EPA's findings. Thus PM
formed "The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition," or TASSC.
Recognizing that the chemical, paper, metal, petroleum and other
environmentally-dubious industries would also be thrilled to have a
group of "committed experts" who would publicly say that scientific
warnings against their activities were not credible, PM invited these
industries to join TASSC. With the needs clear and a host of willing
help-mates waiting in the wings, PM created TASSC through a public
relations firm called APCO Associates, which helped PM distance itself
from the group. After a 2-month, $50,000 feasibility study done hand
in hand with PM's law firm of Covington and Burling, APCO began
forming TASSC. APCO did an admirable job of recruiting members for
TASSC, too. The "supporters list" (found in another document) includes
businesses from the "Family Loompya Seafood Market" and "Pinckneyville
Lighting" to sawmills, mining and chemical companies, including W.R.
Grace, Co., Amoco, and Dow Chemical. Today's document reveals the
goals of TASSC, and also APCO's enthusiasm for creating a similar
Thoughts on TASSC Europe Type of Document: Memo From: Tom Hockaday of
APCO Associates To: Matt Winokur, Director, Worldwide Regulatory
Affairs for Philip Morris Date: 19940324 Site: Philip Morris Tobacco
Company http://www.pmdocs.com/ Bates No. 2025492898/2905 Page Count: 8
URL: http://www.pmdocs.com/getallimg.asp?DOCID=2025492898/2905
Wow!! Whodathunk that Phillips Morris is responsible for Global
Warming?
Thats gonna be really good for the tobaco harvest!
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
03/28/94 15:25 '8`202 466 6004 APCO ASSOCIATES 0004 -3 - As a starting
point, we can identify key issues requiring sound scientific research
and scientists that may have an interest in them. Some issues our
European colleagues suggest include: . Global warming · Nuclear waste
disposal · Diseases and pests in agricultural products for
transborder trade · Biotechnology . Eco-labeling for EC products
You got that diseased pest part down perfectly. Bravo!
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2024233595-3602.html
Thoughts on Tassc Europe
Date: 25 Mar 1994
-3- As a starting point, we can identify key issues requiring sound
scientific research and scientists that may have an interest in them.
Some issues our European colleagues suggest include: . Global
warming . Nuclear waste disposal . Diseases and pests in agricultural
products for transborder trade . Biotechnology . Eco-labeling for EC
products . Food processing and packaging
Soylent Green!!
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
-5- decisions. The supporters of the Appeal are a loose-knit group.
The effort to expand the support of the Appeal is handled through Dr.
M. Saloman of the International Center for Scientific Ecology (Paris).
I though it was the Zionists..or the Illuminati?
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
In discussions with a number of our scientific supporters and with Dr.
Fred Singer (a member of the Board of the International Center for
Scientific Ecology), there is belief that this initial support could
be organized into a more "formal movement" internationally. The
benefits of attempting to use this group as a basis of extending TASSC
include: Several of TASSC's scientists have signed the Appeal,
providing the opportunity to approach the supporters with a "peer to
peer" approach, i.e. , a "Dear Colleague" letter.
Fred still around? I thought he was still in prison for running a child
porn ring?
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/nysa_ti_m2/TI15842109.html
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 28, 1993 THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER A truth squad
for monitoring shaky science
Date: 28 Dec 1993
TASSC should work to make fiascos like the Alar scare as familiar to
students as rain forests or global warming.
Sure you dont mean TAS? Or Pravada?
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/mayo_clinic/82000099.html
TASSC The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition
"It is neither reasonable nor prudent for major political decisions to
be based on presumptions which, in the current state of knowledge, are
still only hypotheses, although they must certainly be examined and
even taken into account. The more or less apocalyptic scenarios evoked
in the preparatory, work for the Rio conference are not the kind of
certitudes which can be used as a basis for political decisions likely
to entail major upheavals and heavy expenditure on a global scale."
~Michael Salomon, Editorial Director, Projections Quarterly, Autumn-
Winter 1992
Projections Quarterly? Projectionists have their own quarterly?
Hell..Ill bet Mr. Johnson the projectionist at the Beju Theater would
have liked that!
<megasnip black helicopters conspiracy crapola>


Gunner, loveable harmless fuzzball.

"I don't want to abolish government.
I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can
drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
-- Grover Norquist
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2007-04-24 01:27:59 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>,
Gunner <***@lightspeed.net> wrote:

sad
just sad
Post by Gunner
On 23 Apr 2007 11:15:31 -0700, Bush Lost Iraq War
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
Gunner is a Cho Seung-Hui of Usenet.
Gunner is Choosing You to be a victim of Mass Murder.
of course. But only liberals and libtards.
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
Like Cho Seung-Hui, Gunner is a sociopath utterly without pity for his
randomly chosen victims -- it's just a violent video game for him,
where he tries for the "most points" using weather of mass
destruction. 20,000 dead in France from Heat Wave, 3,000 wacked in New
Orleans, just points to keep score.
Geeze..I get brownie points for the dead Frogs too? AllRIGHTY!!!
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
The longer you stay unaware that your death is his goal, the more his
words can infect you like poison to delay your self-defense plan.
We stab'em, you slab'em!
Peace through superior firepower!
Nuke a gay baby whale for JeeeeesuS!!!
Better dead then a Liberal (they are only dead from the neck up)
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
Global Warming briefings were being given to tobacco company
executives two decades ago, while they were in the midst of carrying
out serial murders of 400,000 Americans per year with delay tactics of
hired science-falsifiers. They loaned part of their propaganda
apparatus to the OILY INC liars to delay actions on Global Warming, as
the court records show as early as 1988.
I thought Global Warming was Bush's fault? Now you are claiming its RJ
Reynolds?
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
It wasn't until 1998 that the evidence came to light in courts of law,
but nine years later the same people are still doing the same frauds.
But we voted him out of office in 2000.
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
Since 1988 to 1998, 4 million Americans were killed by frauds that
said that the science on tobacco was unsettled. These are willful
deliberate premeditated murders, using people like Gunner to spread
their message.
Sounds an Awful lot like Liberalism doesnt it?
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
Since 1998 another 3.6 million have been murdered by falsified science
"debate" keeping the settled science from being taken seriously by
thew victims of opportunity whom have been knowingly addicted by
corporate serial murderers, and their henchmen like Gunner.
And a damned good Henchman I am too! Im a member of the Henchmens Union
and everything!
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
The A.S.S. Coalition (TASSC) & Global Warming
http://TobaccoDocuments.org Court Records
http://tobaccodocuments.org/landman/158433.html
Abstract
To circumvent its lack of credibility with the public, policy makers
and the media, Philip Morris (PM) uses the strategy of creating front
groups. Forming an artificial third party and then assigning it an
"umbrella cause" (one which happens to mesh perfectly with the tobacco
industry's) gives PM and the industry the opportunity to create a
wholly separate, and far more credible, mouthpiece advance its
policies and political desires. In PM's front group "Associates for
Research in Substance Enjoyment," (ARISE) "scientists" lumped tobacco
use together with innocuous substances like tea and chocolate, put out
worldwide press releases saying substance use was good for you and
declared public health advocates to be puritanical, neo-prohibitionist
party poopers. After the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
declared secondhand smoke as a Class A Human Carcinogen, PM needed a
powerful group to rise up help discredit EPA's findings. Thus PM
formed "The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition," or TASSC.
Recognizing that the chemical, paper, metal, petroleum and other
environmentally-dubious industries would also be thrilled to have a
group of "committed experts" who would publicly say that scientific
warnings against their activities were not credible, PM invited these
industries to join TASSC. With the needs clear and a host of willing
help-mates waiting in the wings, PM created TASSC through a public
relations firm called APCO Associates, which helped PM distance itself
from the group. After a 2-month, $50,000 feasibility study done hand
in hand with PM's law firm of Covington and Burling, APCO began
forming TASSC. APCO did an admirable job of recruiting members for
TASSC, too. The "supporters list" (found in another document) includes
businesses from the "Family Loompya Seafood Market" and "Pinckneyville
Lighting" to sawmills, mining and chemical companies, including W.R.
Grace, Co., Amoco, and Dow Chemical. Today's document reveals the
goals of TASSC, and also APCO's enthusiasm for creating a similar
Thoughts on TASSC Europe Type of Document: Memo From: Tom Hockaday of
APCO Associates To: Matt Winokur, Director, Worldwide Regulatory
Affairs for Philip Morris Date: 19940324 Site: Philip Morris Tobacco
Company http://www.pmdocs.com/ Bates No. 2025492898/2905 Page Count: 8
URL: http://www.pmdocs.com/getallimg.asp?DOCID=2025492898/2905
Wow!! Whodathunk that Phillips Morris is responsible for Global
Warming?
Thats gonna be really good for the tobaco harvest!
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
03/28/94 15:25 '8`202 466 6004 APCO ASSOCIATES 0004 -3 - As a starting
point, we can identify key issues requiring sound scientific research
and scientists that may have an interest in them. Some issues our
European colleagues suggest include: . Global warming · Nuclear waste
disposal · Diseases and pests in agricultural products for
transborder trade · Biotechnology . Eco-labeling for EC products
You got that diseased pest part down perfectly. Bravo!
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2024233595-3602.html
Thoughts on Tassc Europe
Date: 25 Mar 1994
-3- As a starting point, we can identify key issues requiring sound
scientific research and scientists that may have an interest in them.
Some issues our European colleagues suggest include: . Global
warming . Nuclear waste disposal . Diseases and pests in agricultural
products for transborder trade . Biotechnology . Eco-labeling for EC
products . Food processing and packaging
Soylent Green!!
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
-5- decisions. The supporters of the Appeal are a loose-knit group.
The effort to expand the support of the Appeal is handled through Dr.
M. Saloman of the International Center for Scientific Ecology (Paris).
I though it was the Zionists..or the Illuminati?
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
In discussions with a number of our scientific supporters and with Dr.
Fred Singer (a member of the Board of the International Center for
Scientific Ecology), there is belief that this initial support could
be organized into a more "formal movement" internationally. The
benefits of attempting to use this group as a basis of extending TASSC
include: Several of TASSC's scientists have signed the Appeal,
providing the opportunity to approach the supporters with a "peer to
peer" approach, i.e. , a "Dear Colleague" letter.
Fred still around? I thought he was still in prison for running a child
porn ring?
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/nysa_ti_m2/TI15842109.html
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 28, 1993 THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER A truth squad
for monitoring shaky science
Date: 28 Dec 1993
TASSC should work to make fiascos like the Alar scare as familiar to
students as rain forests or global warming.
Sure you dont mean TAS? Or Pravada?
Post by Bush Lost Iraq War
===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/mayo_clinic/82000099.html
TASSC The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition
"It is neither reasonable nor prudent for major political decisions to
be based on presumptions which, in the current state of knowledge, are
still only hypotheses, although they must certainly be examined and
even taken into account. The more or less apocalyptic scenarios evoked
in the preparatory, work for the Rio conference are not the kind of
certitudes which can be used as a basis for political decisions likely
to entail major upheavals and heavy expenditure on a global scale."
~Michael Salomon, Editorial Director, Projections Quarterly, Autumn-
Winter 1992
Projections Quarterly? Projectionists have their own quarterly?
Hell..Ill bet Mr. Johnson the projectionist at the Beju Theater would
have liked that!
<megasnip black helicopters conspiracy crapola>
Gunner, loveable harmless fuzzball.
"I don't want to abolish government.
I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can
drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
-- Grover Norquist
meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
Cliff
2007-04-26 16:47:57 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:27:59 -0700, mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
sad
just sad
Probably a heavy smoker too .... but no money for health care .....
welfare ....
--
Cliff
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2007-04-26 22:43:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:27:59 -0700, mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
sad
just sad
Probably a heavy smoker too .... but no money for health care .....
welfare ....
i see gunner did his usual fleeing in terror while declaring victory routine

what a guy

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
Bush Lost Iraq War
2007-04-23 18:15:52 UTC
Permalink
Gunner is a Cho Seung-Hui of Usenet.

Gunner is Choosing You to be a victim of Mass Murder.

Like Cho Seung-Hui, Gunner is a sociopath utterly without pity for his
randomly chosen victims -- it's just a violent video game for him,
where he tries for the "most points" using weather of mass
destruction. 20,000 dead in France from Heat Wave, 3,000 wacked in New
Orleans, just points to keep score.

The longer you stay unaware that your death is his goal, the more his
words can infect you like poison to delay your self-defense plan.

Global Warming briefings were being given to tobacco company
executives two decades ago, while they were in the midst of carrying
out serial murders of 400,000 Americans per year with delay tactics of
hired science-falsifiers. They loaned part of their propaganda
apparatus to the OILY INC liars to delay actions on Global Warming, as
the court records show as early as 1988.

It wasn't until 1998 that the evidence came to light in courts of law,
but nine years later the same people are still doing the same frauds.

Since 1988 to 1998, 4 million Americans were killed by frauds that
said that the science on tobacco was unsettled. These are willful
deliberate premeditated murders, using people like Gunner to spread
their message.

Since 1998 another 3.6 million have been murdered by falsified science
"debate" keeping the settled science from being taken seriously by
thew victims of opportunity whom have been knowingly addicted by
corporate serial murderers, and their henchmen like Gunner.

The A.S.S. Coalition (TASSC) & Global Warming
http://TobaccoDocuments.org Court Records

http://tobaccodocuments.org/landman/158433.html
Abstract
To circumvent its lack of credibility with the public, policy makers
and the media, Philip Morris (PM) uses the strategy of creating front
groups. Forming an artificial third party and then assigning it an
"umbrella cause" (one which happens to mesh perfectly with the tobacco
industry's) gives PM and the industry the opportunity to create a
wholly separate, and far more credible, mouthpiece advance its
policies and political desires. In PM's front group "Associates for
Research in Substance Enjoyment," (ARISE) "scientists" lumped tobacco
use together with innocuous substances like tea and chocolate, put out
worldwide press releases saying substance use was good for you and
declared public health advocates to be puritanical, neo-prohibitionist
party poopers. After the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
declared secondhand smoke as a Class A Human Carcinogen, PM needed a
powerful group to rise up help discredit EPA's findings. Thus PM
formed "The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition," or TASSC.
Recognizing that the chemical, paper, metal, petroleum and other
environmentally-dubious industries would also be thrilled to have a
group of "committed experts" who would publicly say that scientific
warnings against their activities were not credible, PM invited these
industries to join TASSC. With the needs clear and a host of willing
help-mates waiting in the wings, PM created TASSC through a public
relations firm called APCO Associates, which helped PM distance itself
from the group. After a 2-month, $50,000 feasibility study done hand
in hand with PM's law firm of Covington and Burling, APCO began
forming TASSC. APCO did an admirable job of recruiting members for
TASSC, too. The "supporters list" (found in another document) includes
businesses from the "Family Loompya Seafood Market" and "Pinckneyville
Lighting" to sawmills, mining and chemical companies, including W.R.
Grace, Co., Amoco, and Dow Chemical. Today's document reveals the
goals of TASSC, and also APCO's enthusiasm for creating a similar
group in Europe based on its success in America and elsewhere. Title:
Thoughts on TASSC Europe Type of Document: Memo From: Tom Hockaday of
APCO Associates To: Matt Winokur, Director, Worldwide Regulatory
Affairs for Philip Morris Date: 19940324 Site: Philip Morris Tobacco
Company http://www.pmdocs.com/ Bates No. 2025492898/2905 Page Count: 8
URL: http://www.pmdocs.com/getallimg.asp?DOCID=2025492898/2905

03/28/94 15:25 '8`202 466 6004 APCO ASSOCIATES 0004 -3 - As a starting
point, we can identify key issues requiring sound scientific research
and scientists that may have an interest in them. Some issues our
European colleagues suggest include: . Global warming · Nuclear waste
disposal · Diseases and pests in agricultural products for
transborder trade · Biotechnology . Eco-labeling for EC products

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2024233595-3602.html
Thoughts on Tassc Europe
Date: 25 Mar 1994

-3- As a starting point, we can identify key issues requiring sound
scientific research and scientists that may have an interest in them.
Some issues our European colleagues suggest include: . Global
warming . Nuclear waste disposal . Diseases and pests in agricultural
products for transborder trade . Biotechnology . Eco-labeling for EC
products . Food processing and packaging

-5- decisions. The supporters of the Appeal are a loose-knit group.
The effort to expand the support of the Appeal is handled through Dr.
M. Saloman of the International Center for Scientific Ecology (Paris).

In discussions with a number of our scientific supporters and with Dr.
Fred Singer (a member of the Board of the International Center for
Scientific Ecology), there is belief that this initial support could
be organized into a more "formal movement" internationally. The
benefits of attempting to use this group as a basis of extending TASSC
include: Several of TASSC's scientists have signed the Appeal,
providing the opportunity to approach the supporters with a "peer to
peer" approach, i.e. , a "Dear Colleague" letter.

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/nysa_ti_m2/TI15842109.html
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 28, 1993 THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER A truth squad
for monitoring shaky science
Date: 28 Dec 1993

TASSC should work to make fiascos like the Alar scare as familiar to
students as rain forests or global warming.

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/mayo_clinic/82000099.html
TASSC The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition

"It is neither reasonable nor prudent for major political decisions to
be based on presumptions which, in the current state of knowledge, are
still only hypotheses, although they must certainly be examined and
even taken into account. The more or less apocalyptic scenarios evoked
in the preparatory, work for the Rio conference are not the kind of
certitudes which can be used as a basis for political decisions likely
to entail major upheavals and heavy expenditure on a global scale."
~Michael Salomon, Editorial Director, Projections Quarterly, Autumn-
Winter 1992

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2028363773-3791.html
Scientists for Sound Public Policy Assessment Project and Symposium
Date: 1994 (est.)
Length: 19 pages

EXPLANATIONS · The political decision-makers are vulnerable to
activists' emotional appeals and press campaigns · The opinion climate
tends to favour overly simplified solutions The precautionary
principle is now the accepted guideline. Even if a hypothesis is not
100 per cent scientifically proven, action should be taken, e.g.
global warming Europe's industry is often on the defensive. Action is
typically taken when it is too late. And industrial resistence is
perceived as protection of commercial self-interests.

Burson-Marsteller

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2025493202-3207.html
Date: 26 Apr 1994 (est.)
Length: 6 pages

Many industries trying to establish groups to "communicate science"
and "to lobby" EUFIC (food industry) SAGB (biotechnology) Heidelberg
Appeal (global warming)

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2024102283-2287.html
Date: 1992 (est.)
Length: 5 pages

SEITZ SYMPOSIUM
*Late lst quarter/early 2nd quarter
*Procedural Options for Addressing the Scientific Issue Highlighted in
Global Warming and Ozone Hole Controversies, Dr. Frederick Seitz of
the George C. Marshall Institute
*40-60 regulators--Ensure credible science
*TASSC

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2046451070-1139.html
Science, Economics, and Environmental Policy: A Critical Examination
Date: 11 Aug 1994
Length: 70 pages

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2025802450-2451.html
Scientific Integrity in the Public Policy Process Semi-Final Program
930524 - 930525 the Madison Hotel 15th and M Streets, Nw Washington,
D.C.
Date: 19930525/D
Length: 2 pages

CONFERENCE OVERVIEW: From global warming and ozone depletion to
biotechnology and food additives

Dr.. S. Fred Singer (Moderator) University of Virginia; president, The
Science & Environmental Policy Project

Dr. S. Fred Singer, president The Science & Environmental Policy
Project. 9:15

===============
Environmental Tobacco Smoke
Date: 09 Dec 1996
Length: 13 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/batco/800298146-8158.html

Press Release of The Science & Environmental Policy Project "TOP FIVE
ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY 'MYTHS' OF 1995 TO BE RELEASED BY SCIENCE AND
ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY PROJECT: List Challenges Costly Policies Not
Supported By Sound Scientific Data," January 10, 1996

===============
Philip Morris
Date: 31 Mar 1993
Length: 1 page
2025802449
Jump To Images
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2025802449.html

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2021178213-8216.html
Philip Morris
Possible Individuals to Be Approached for Opinion Editorials
Date: 02 Mar 1993
Length: 4 pages

Candace Crandall -- Executive Vice President of the Science and
Environmental Policy Project (SEPP).

She has published extensively on junk science issues in the past.
Crandall' was the Director of Communications for the Center for
Strategic and International' Studies before joining, SEPP. The primary
focus of SEPP is too document the use of scientific data in the
development of federal environmental policy. SEPP is an independent,
non-profi research group that relies on private funding.

It will co-sponsor a conference with George Mason University in May on
scientific integrity in the political process, Crandall has arranged
for a number of prominent scientists to be participants, including Dr.
Bernard Davis of Harvard University and1 Sir William Mitchell of'
Oxford University.

Crandall is Dr: Fred Singer's wife.

===============
Issue Report Alexis Whither Environmental Regulation
Date: 01 Jul 1993
Length: 6 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/nysa_ti_s2/TI31741185.html

Dr. S. Fred Singer is Professor of Environmental Sciences at the
University of Virginia and directs the Washington- based Science &
Environmental Policy Project. He is currently working on a study on
environmental regulation for the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution.

===============
Philip Morris
Anthology of 950000's Environmental Myths
Date: 11 Feb 1996
Length: 3 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2048280356-0358.html

Copyright 1996 News World Communications, Inc. The Washington Times
February 11, 1996, Sunday, Final Edition SECTION: Part B; COMMENTARY;
Pg. B3 LENGTH: 1377 words HEADLINE: Anthology of 1995's environmental
myths BYLINE: S. Fred Singer

BODY: The primary mission of the Science & Environmental Policy
Project has been to study and analyze how science is used - or
missused - in the setting of federal environmental policies, and then
expose the most egregious examples of environmental malfeasance. There
are so many: Superfund, asbestos, Alar, acid rain, to mention just a
few - all of them costing mega-billions and backed by insubstantial
science. When we decided to list the greatest environmental myths of
1995, our board _ of experts finally settled on the following five
topics that demonstrate distortion or misuse of science in shaping
policies. We present them here to educate policy-makers and the public
in the hope that the publicity will lead to more cost-effective
policies and a healthier environment. (1) Global warming and the
Climate Treaty: During 1995, scare stories about a future catastrophic
greenhouse warming gained much momentum, while at the same time the
evidence for such warming became weaker and weaker. At the first
"Conference of the Parties" to the Global Climate Treaty in Berlin in
April, the science was ignored while the assembled "statesmen" went
ahead to establish a permanent secretariat and plan further mega-
meetings. In September, at the initiative of Al Gore, a Washington
conference promoted a new fear tied to global warming: a spread of
tropical diseases putting 3 billion people at risk. Finally, in
November (in Madrid) and December (in Rome), the U.N.-sponsored
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the scientific arm
of the Treaty, managed to approve two pre-drafted summary reports.
These can charitably be described as being "economical with the
truth."...

===============
Philip Morris
Is the Concept of Linear Relationship Between Dose and Effect Still A
Valid Model for Assessing Risk Related to Low Doses of Carcinogens? A
Restricted International Scientific Seminar 930510 - Paris (France)
Date: 10 May 1993
Length: 5 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2028385383-5387.html

International Center for a Scientific Ecology Is the concept of linear
relationship between dose and effoct still a valid model for assessing
risk related to low doses of ets? A restricted international
scienfific Seminar May 10, 1993 - Paris (France)

The seminar is organised by the International Centre for a Scientific
Ecology (see Introduction to the Centre in the appendix). The
scientific work is organised by Dr Michel Salomon, the coordinator of
the Heidelberg Appeal.

Prof. S. Fred Singer, Doctor of Physical Science; President of the
Science & Environmental Policy Project; former Director, US Weather
Satellite Program; Dean of the School of Environmental Sciences,
University of Miami; Deputy Assistant Administrator of US
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); American. nationality;

Dr. Michel Salomon, coordinator of the Heidelberg Appeal; former
science journalist; magazine editor; French nationality.

===============
Philip Morris
Dr. S. Fred Singer, Director the Science and Environmental Policy
Project
Date: 08 Mar 1993 (est.)
Length: 1 page
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2021178209.html

===============
Brown & Williamson
Public Affairs Strategies.
Date: 1900
Length: 4 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/bw/1059809.html

(#8) SCIENCE & ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY PROJECT From a strategic
standpoint, we believed the most effective way to publicize the report
would be through a credibl]e highly respected "third party".

So we brought the report to the attention of the 'Science &
Environmental Policy Project", SEPP, as it is known, is a Fairfax,
Va., think-tank that studies and analyzes how science is used in
federal policy-making and encourages the use of sound science. After
reading the CRS report, SEPP was equally concerned the EPA's
conclusions and agreed more visibility was in ***@er.

{#9) SEPP NEWS RELEASE With B&W's assistance, SEEP launched a media
relations campaign in January calling attention to the "Top Five
Environmental Myths of 1995." While such issues as "global warming"
and radon were on the list, the focus was on ETS.

(#10) WASHINGTON TIMES "OP ED" In addition to news releases, SEPP
wrote "Op ed" pieces and conducted interviews on radio and television.
SEPP is continuing the "environmental myths" campaign, extending
discussion of the subject to speeches by Dr. Fred Singer, SEPP's
executive director. It's one strategy to help balance the debate.

===============
Mayo Clinic
Length: 37 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/mayo_clinic/85002238.html

THE INTERNATIONAL CENTER FOR A SCIENTIFIC ECOLOGY The Center has been
created at the beginning of 1993 under the French law for nomprolit
organizations.

The Board of the Center includes in particular:
- Mr Pierre Joly. President of the Association Francaise pour la
Recherche Therapeutique : former President of the International
Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers Association ;

- Mr Constant Burg. honorary member of the State Council ; honorary
managing director of INSERM : President of the lnstitut Curie:

- Mr Gilbert Rutman. chief mining engineer: President of the Conseil
Natioflal des Ingenieurs et des Scientifiques de France:

- Prof. S. Fred Singer. Doctor of Physical Science : President of the
Science & Environmental Policy Project : former Director US Weather
Satellite Program : Dean of the School of Environmental Sciences.
University of Miami : Deputy Assistant Administrator of US
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) :

- Mr Gary Nash. Secretary General of the International Council on
Metals and the Environment (ICME) : former Director General in the
Canada Department of Energy. Mines und Resources :

- Dr. Michel Salomon, coordinator of the Heidelberg Appeal ; former
science journalist : magazine editor.

===============
Philip Morris
Top Five Environmental Policy "Myths" of 950000 to Be Released by
Science and Environmental Policy Project
Date: 1995 (est.)
Length: 1 page
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2065122118.html

===============
Philip Morris
the Delaney Clause - Linchpin of the Environmental Policy Edifice
Date: 10 May 1993
Length: 4 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2501171259-1262.html

The Delaney Clause-Linchpin of the Environmental Policy Edifice Prof.
S. Fred Singer

S. Fred Singer Director, Science & Environmental Policy Project
Arlington, Virginia

===============
Philip Morris
Junk Science at the Epa
Date: 08 Mar 1993 (est.)
Length: 3 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2021178206-8208.html

S. Fred Singer Visiting fellovv at the Hoover Institution at Stanford
University and President of the Washington. D C.-baed Science &
Environrnental Policy Project

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2065122122.html
Philip Morris
Sepp - Environmental Myths of 950000 - Smt Participant Broadcast
Details
Date: 1995 (est.)
Length: 1 page

===============
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2065122119-2121.html
Philip Morris
Top Five Environmental Policy "Myths" of 950000 to Be Released by
Science and Environmental Policy Project
Date: 10 Jan 1996
Length: 3 pages

===============
Philip Morris
Seminar of 930510 on the Linear Relationship
Date: 31 Mar 1993
Length: 3 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2028443741-3743.html

Opening speech by Chairman of the Seminar, Prof. Bruce N. Ames
(Biologist'4 Dir., Nat. Inst. of EnvironmentallHealth Sciences Center,
Berkeley, U.S.A.). 9/9.20 a.m. · How biofogically based modeis may
help extrapolating cancer risk to low doses.

· The Delaney amendment and its consequences on the American
regufation. Prof. S. Fred Singer (Physicist, former Dir., US Weather
Satellite Program; President, Science & Environmental Policy Project,
U'.S.A.). 10.20/10.30 a.m.

Noon · Case studies: Predictions and reality. - The Arsenic case.
Prof. Gerhard Stohrer (former chief, Dept!. of chemical risk, Research
Inst. Sloan-Kettering~ U.S.A.).

The DDT case. Dr. William Hazeltine (Ph.D., entomo!bgist, former
Manager of mosquito abatement in California, U.S:A.).

===============
Philip Morris
Update 930419
Date: 19 Apr 1993
Length: 7 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2025475593-5599.html

CONFERENCE/MEETING: Scientific Integrity in the Public Process
SPONSOR: International Institute of George Mason University and the
Science and Environmental Policy Project DATE: May 24-25, 1993
LOCATION: The Madison Hotel, Washington, DC TELEPHONE NUMBER:
703-993-8200

===============
BATCo
[Note from Heather Cooke to Tom Fitzgerald regarding report issued by
The Science & Environmental Policy Project SEPP]
Date: 27 Feb 1996
Length: 1 page
http://tobaccodocuments.org/batco/700520244.html

BRITISH-AMERICAN TOBACCO COMPANY LIMITED To: FACSIMILE MR TOM
FITZGERALD I From: HEATHER COOKE Company: Brown & Williamson Phone
01784 448045 'Tobacco Corp Number: Fax No: Fax No: 0"784 448654 Date:
27/02/96 Pages To Follow: 3 Comments: I am trying to get hold of a
report issued by The Science & Environmental Policy Project (SEPP)
which relates to the attached press release. Do you have a copy that
you can fax to me or know where I might be able to get hold of a copy?
Many thanks Heather Cooke Administrator, Smoking Issues

===============
Philip Morris
Toxic Policy at Dead End: the Case of Arsenic
Date: 10 May 1993 (est.)
Length: 6 pages
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2502146148-6153.html

International Center for a Scientific Ecology Seminar on linear risk
assessment May 10, 1993 Toxic Policy at Dead End: The Case of Arsenic
Gerhard Strohrer Science and Environmental Policy Project 2101 Wilson
Boulevard, Suite 1003 Arlington, Virginia 22201

===============
Philip Morris
Give Industry A Bigger Science Rol
Date: 19921229/P
Length: 1 page
http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2074144040.html

Patrick J. Michaels is associate professor of environmental sciences
at the University Virginia and is affiliated with the Washington-based
Science & Environment Policy Project. The Science & Environmental
Policy Project, 2101 Wilson Blvd., #1003, Arlington, VA 22201 .(703)
527-0130

===============
Cliff
2007-04-22 22:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Flunk math Gunner?
No..I actually did quite well in it.
Third grade?
You HAD to join the military, right?
--
Cliff
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-17 06:34:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Ah Yes, your SOOO Right? Those years with carter, Clintoon and
others were such an example of Morality, Virtue and Clean living?/ LOL
man, get a grip, your wig is slipping?
Yup, they indeed were.
Only if you are West Hollywood native.
What do West Hollywood Adults do that upsets Gunner?
Gunner
2007-04-17 09:04:52 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:34:58 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Ah Yes, your SOOO Right? Those years with carter, Clintoon and
others were such an example of Morality, Virtue and Clean living?/ LOL
man, get a grip, your wig is slipping?
Yup, they indeed were.
Only if you are West Hollywood native.
What do West Hollywood Adults do that upsets Gunner?
Upset me? Hardly. Ive been to some marvelous parties there...but
Morality, virture and clean living are not part of the West Hollywood
culture..... Or the Clinton Administration

Gunner

"I don't want to abolish government.
I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can
drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
-- Grover Norquist
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2007-04-17 13:33:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:34:58 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Ah Yes, your SOOO Right? Those years with carter, Clintoon and
others were such an example of Morality, Virtue and Clean living?/ LOL
man, get a grip, your wig is slipping?
Yup, they indeed were.
Only if you are West Hollywood native.
What do West Hollywood Adults do that upsets Gunner?
Upset me? Hardly. Ive been to some marvelous parties there...but
Morality, virture and clean living are not part of the West Hollywood
culture..... Or the Clinton Administration
nor republicans
unless you think lying stealing divorcing killing people
screwing everyone for one more buck are highlights of mora

oh

never mind

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
Aratzio
2007-04-17 14:36:45 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 06:33:33 -0700, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
Post by Gunner
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:34:58 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Ah Yes, your SOOO Right? Those years with carter, Clintoon and
others were such an example of Morality, Virtue and Clean living?/ LOL
man, get a grip, your wig is slipping?
Yup, they indeed were.
Only if you are West Hollywood native.
What do West Hollywood Adults do that upsets Gunner?
Upset me? Hardly. Ive been to some marvelous parties there...but
Morality, virture and clean living are not part of the West Hollywood
culture..... Or the Clinton Administration
nor republicans
unless you think lying stealing divorcing killing people
screwing everyone for one more buck are highlights of mora
oh
never mind
You should know better, you only have to *claim* morality, not
actually live or abide by it. As long as there are the blind & stupid
(see gunner) there will be political parties that claim such.

It is interesting that almost to a man the republican presidential
candidates are all divorced, mostly ugly, with claims of adultery.
Where as the democaric candidates to a person have never been
divorced.

So much for the idea that the republicans are the party of family
values.

Hell, when the republicans were going after Clinton, the prime movers
(Gingrich, Dole, Armey et al) all had been divorced. Gingrich was
carrying on an affair with one of his interns during the whole sordid
affair.
--
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?

Aratzio - Usenet ruiner #2
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2007-04-17 15:00:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aratzio
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 06:33:33 -0700, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
Post by Gunner
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:34:58 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Ah Yes, your SOOO Right? Those years with carter, Clintoon and
others were such an example of Morality, Virtue and Clean living?/ LOL
man, get a grip, your wig is slipping?
Yup, they indeed were.
Only if you are West Hollywood native.
What do West Hollywood Adults do that upsets Gunner?
Upset me? Hardly. Ive been to some marvelous parties there...but
Morality, virture and clean living are not part of the West Hollywood
culture..... Or the Clinton Administration
nor republicans
unless you think lying stealing divorcing killing people
screwing everyone for one more buck are highlights of mora
oh
never mind
You should know better, you only have to *claim* morality, not
actually live or abide by it. As long as there are the blind & stupid
(see gunner) there will be political parties that claim such.
It is interesting that almost to a man the republican presidential
candidates are all divorced, mostly ugly, with claims of adultery.
Where as the democaric candidates to a person have never been
divorced.
So much for the idea that the republicans are the party of family
values.
(buffy mode on) manson family values (buffy mode off)
Post by Aratzio
Hell, when the republicans were going after Clinton, the prime movers
(Gingrich, Dole, Armey et al) all had been divorced. Gingrich was
carrying on an affair with one of his interns during the whole sordid
affair.
sexual hijinks aside
killing a hundred thousand human beings
and destroying a hundreds thousands more
just so you can keep china from getting oil from iraq

maybe shrub shouldve read something from his greatest philosopher

"Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit
will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can
you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the
mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him,
and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell
you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless
word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your
words you will be condemned."

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
Aratzio
2007-04-17 15:19:34 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:00:08 -0700, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
Post by Aratzio
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 06:33:33 -0700, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
Post by Gunner
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:34:58 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Ah Yes, your SOOO Right? Those years with carter, Clintoon and
others were such an example of Morality, Virtue and Clean living?/ LOL
man, get a grip, your wig is slipping?
Yup, they indeed were.
Only if you are West Hollywood native.
What do West Hollywood Adults do that upsets Gunner?
Upset me? Hardly. Ive been to some marvelous parties there...but
Morality, virture and clean living are not part of the West Hollywood
culture..... Or the Clinton Administration
nor republicans
unless you think lying stealing divorcing killing people
screwing everyone for one more buck are highlights of mora
oh
never mind
You should know better, you only have to *claim* morality, not
actually live or abide by it. As long as there are the blind & stupid
(see gunner) there will be political parties that claim such.
It is interesting that almost to a man the republican presidential
candidates are all divorced, mostly ugly, with claims of adultery.
Where as the democaric candidates to a person have never been
divorced.
So much for the idea that the republicans are the party of family
values.
(buffy mode on) manson family values (buffy mode off)
Post by Aratzio
Hell, when the republicans were going after Clinton, the prime movers
(Gingrich, Dole, Armey et al) all had been divorced. Gingrich was
carrying on an affair with one of his interns during the whole sordid
affair.
sexual hijinks aside
killing a hundred thousand human beings
and destroying a hundreds thousands more
just so you can keep china from getting oil from iraq
<fuckwit mode on>
It was not about the oil, it was about the terrorist and nuclear
weapons.
<fuckwit mode off>

I really wonder how many people believe that load of codswollop now.
I'll bet even Gummy understands, now.
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
maybe shrub shouldve read something from his greatest philosopher
Making assumptions the moron can read, greykitty?
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
"Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit
will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can
you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the
mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him,
and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell
you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless
word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your
words you will be condemned."
meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
--
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?

Aratzio - Usenet ruiner #2
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2007-04-17 16:01:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aratzio
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:00:08 -0700, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
Post by Aratzio
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 06:33:33 -0700, mariposas rand mair fheal
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
Post by Gunner
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:34:58 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Post by Gunner
Post by Vendicar Decarian
Ah Yes, your SOOO Right? Those years with carter, Clintoon and
others were such an example of Morality, Virtue and Clean living?/
LOL
man, get a grip, your wig is slipping?
Yup, they indeed were.
Only if you are West Hollywood native.
What do West Hollywood Adults do that upsets Gunner?
Upset me? Hardly. Ive been to some marvelous parties there...but
Morality, virture and clean living are not part of the West Hollywood
culture..... Or the Clinton Administration
nor republicans
unless you think lying stealing divorcing killing people
screwing everyone for one more buck are highlights of mora
oh
never mind
You should know better, you only have to *claim* morality, not
actually live or abide by it. As long as there are the blind & stupid
(see gunner) there will be political parties that claim such.
It is interesting that almost to a man the republican presidential
candidates are all divorced, mostly ugly, with claims of adultery.
Where as the democaric candidates to a person have never been
divorced.
So much for the idea that the republicans are the party of family
values.
(buffy mode on) manson family values (buffy mode off)
Post by Aratzio
Hell, when the republicans were going after Clinton, the prime movers
(Gingrich, Dole, Armey et al) all had been divorced. Gingrich was
carrying on an affair with one of his interns during the whole sordid
affair.
sexual hijinks aside
killing a hundred thousand human beings
and destroying a hundreds thousands more
just so you can keep china from getting oil from iraq
<fuckwit mode on>
It was not about the oil, it was about the terrorist and nuclear
weapons.
<fuckwit mode off>
I really wonder how many people believe that load of codswollop now.
I'll bet even Gummy understands, now.
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
maybe shrub shouldve read something from his greatest philosopher
Making assumptions the moron can read, greykitty?
youre right

is there any independent evidence that he is above the first grade level

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
Crooked Corporations Backing Crooked Politicians
2007-04-17 18:30:24 UTC
Permalink
http://wpherald.com/articles/4353/1/Climate-change-linked-to-extinction-of-species/Climate-change-can-cause-boom-and-bust-cycles.html

Climate change linked to extinction of species
By United Press International | Published Today | Environment |
Unrated
Climate change can cause 'boom and bust' cycles


By UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL

SANTA CRUZ, Calif. -- U.S. researchers have determined climate change
can cause "boom and bust" population cycles that make animal species
more vulnerable to extinction.

University of California-Santa Cruz Assistant Professor Christopher
Wilmers and colleagues found favorable environmental conditions that
produce abundant supplies of food and stimulate population booms
appear to set the stage for population crashes that occur when several
consecutive "good years" are followed by a bad year.

"It's almost paradoxical, because you'd think a large population would
be better off, but it turns out they're more vulnerable to a drop in
resources," said Wilmers, noting understanding how environmental
changes influence fluctuations in animal populations is crucial to
predicting and mitigating the influence of global climate change.

Wilmers and colleagues Eric Post and Alan Hastings describe their new
mathematical model that evaluates how climate and resources interact
with populations in a paper that appears in the May issue of The
American Naturalist.
Gunner
2007-04-21 20:19:53 UTC
Permalink
On 17 Apr 2007 11:30:24 -0700, Crooked Corporations Backing Crooked
Post by Crooked Corporations Backing Crooked Politicians
http://wpherald.com/articles/4353/1/Climate-change-linked-to-extinction-of-species/Climate-change-can-cause-boom-and-bust-cycles.html
Climate change linked to extinction of species
By United Press International | Published Today | Environment |
Unrated
Climate change can cause 'boom and bust' cycles
By UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
SANTA CRUZ, Calif. -- U.S. researchers have determined climate change
can cause "boom and bust" population cycles that make animal species
more vulnerable to extinction.
University of California-Santa Cruz Assistant Professor Christopher
Wilmers and colleagues found favorable environmental conditions that
produce abundant supplies of food and stimulate population booms
appear to set the stage for population crashes that occur when several
consecutive "good years" are followed by a bad year.
"It's almost paradoxical, because you'd think a large population would
be better off, but it turns out they're more vulnerable to a drop in
resources," said Wilmers, noting understanding how environmental
changes influence fluctuations in animal populations is crucial to
predicting and mitigating the influence of global climate change.
Wilmers and colleagues Eric Post and Alan Hastings describe their new
mathematical model that evaluates how climate and resources interact
with populations in a paper that appears in the May issue of The
American Naturalist.
Shit..one only has to watch deer and rabbit populations to determine
this. Some years the rabbits are at a low cycle..often following a long
dry spell, then after a year of rain, the populations rise, and the
following year, often another wet one..and we are up to our asses in
rabbits. Rabbits dead on the road ways, etc. This of course makes the
coyote populations rise as there is abundant food to keep more pups
alive..and the next year the pups are having pups..and pretty soon we
are ass deep in coyotes..coyotes dead on the road way...etc.

Then comes a few years of drought again, rabbits die out, coyotes start
coming into town to find food..house cats, small dogs..and pretty soon
the coyote populations start falling again.

This sort of cycle has been going on for billions of years. And these
boffins are just now discovering it?

They should have asked any hunter or game management person.

Bet our taxpayer monies paid for this "study"

Gack!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gunner

"I don't want to abolish government.
I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can
drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
-- Grover Norquist
Cliff
2007-04-22 07:08:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Bet our taxpayer monies paid for this "study"
Probably hard to convince a faith-based repub or winger.
--
Cliff
Cliff
2007-04-22 07:10:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Shit..one only has to watch deer and rabbit populations to determine
this. Some years the rabbits are at a low cycle..often following a long
dry spell, then after a year of rain,
That is weather, not climate change. The later will be far
worse.

HTH
--
Cliff (education wingers one by one for decades)
Cliff
2007-04-22 07:07:07 UTC
Permalink
On 17 Apr 2007 11:30:24 -0700, Crooked Corporations Backing Crooked Politicians
Post by Crooked Corporations Backing Crooked Politicians
By UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
SANTA CRUZ, Calif. -- U.S. researchers have determined climate change
can cause "boom and bust" population cycles that make animal species
more vulnerable to extinction.
<Sheesh>
That one was a no-brainer.
Probably will not fit in a wingers brain cell though. Too big.
--
Cliff
Cliff
2007-04-15 10:51:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 02:33:55 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
hat's not to love?
ou mean the kind of Love that Bushie says that OBGYN's should be sharing
with their patients all over the country?
After the then illegal abortion(s) he got his girlfriend(s) with family
connections?
One must just so love neocon & Conservative family values, such
as the ones Gunner so often touts (it only seems to matter that
they don't apply to HIM but MUST to everyone else).
Catch the latest on conservative family-values Wolfowitz? Sounds
like many of the actual professional staff at the World Bank (where
he was turned loose after aiding in creation of the war messes per
HIS plans) are in open revolt.
His girlfriend got US$193,590 per year plus 8% annual pay increases
*tax free* ....
"The dog ate our Emails !!" (Note: Federal government paying for the
repub & neocon party expenses.)
--
Cliff
CLIFF
I don't know you, or Gunner for that matter, but the way you talk,
you Must me some sort of grand asshole? I have Little use for people
of your type and you';d be best to remember what Moms have told thier
sons for years? If you've nothing good to say about someone, shut the
Hell up? LOL
RON
Found those "WMDs" yet?

Famous Republican saying: "Everything is fine in politics as long as you
don't get caught in bed with a live man, or a dead woman.”

"I add up to a Republican Senate and Republican House. You may end up
with a different math but you are entitled to your math and I'm entitled
to THE math." - Karl Rove

[
Quotes: Family Guy: Peter
[Riding a circus elephant]
Peter: Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a
fat white guy who is threatened by change.
]

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different
results." - Albert Einstein
--
Cliff
RONSERESURPLUS
2007-04-15 19:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Post by Cliff
On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 02:33:55 -0700, "Vendicar Decarian"
hat's not to love?
ou mean the kind of Love that Bushie says that OBGYN's should be sharing
with their patients all over the country?
After the then illegal abortion(s) he got his girlfriend(s) with family
connections?
One must just so love neocon & Conservative family values, such
as the ones Gunner so often touts (it only seems to matter that
they don't apply to HIM but MUST to everyone else).
Catch the latest on conservative family-values Wolfowitz? Sounds
like many of the actual professional staff at the World Bank (where
he was turned loose after aiding in creation of the war messes per
HIS plans) are in open revolt.
His girlfriend got US$193,590 per year plus 8% annual pay increases
*tax free* ....
"The dog ate our Emails !!" (Note: Federal government paying for the
repub & neocon party expenses.)
--
Cliff
CLIFF
I don't know you, or Gunner for that matter, but the way you talk,
you Must me some sort of grand asshole? I have Little use for people
of your type and you';d be best to remember what Moms have told thier
sons for years? If you've nothing good to say about someone, shut the
Hell up? LOL
RON
Found those "WMDs" yet?
Famous Republican saying: "Everything is fine in politics as long as you
don't get caught in bed with a live man, or a dead woman."
"I add up to a Republican Senate and Republican House. You may end up
with a different math but you are entitled to your math and I'm entitled
to THE math." - Karl Rove
[
Quotes: Family Guy: Peter
[Riding a circus elephant]
Peter: Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a
fat white guy who is threatened by change.
]
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different
results." - Albert Einstein
--
Cliff- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Cliff


As a matter of fact, Yes, many WMD's have been found, in Iraq, and
in some were even sent as scrap to Rotterdam and a welder was killed
trying to cut up a live scud rocketmotor! I know Idiots like you have
no clue and the fact that they had more thna a year to hide the
majority, fools you, it's doern't us! OH and as I was in Iraq, Iran
and Afgainstan and was doing a lot of the real work, what were you
doing during that time? Sitting on your ass in some peace ralley? LOL
What an idiot!




RON
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-20 06:22:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by RONSERESURPLUS
As a matter of fact, Yes, many WMD's have been found, in Iraq, and
in some were even sent as scrap to Rotterdam and a welder was killed
trying to cut up a live scud rocketmotor!
A scud is not a weapon of mass destruction. Fool.

CIA's final report: No WMD found in Iraq - AP -

Recommends freeing detainees held for weapons knowledge

Updated: 6:24 p.m. PT April 25, 2005

WASHINGTON - In his final word, the CIA's top weapons inspector in Iraq said
Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has "gone as far as
feasible" and has found nothing, closing an investigation into the purported
programs of Saddam Hussein that were used to justify the 2003 invasion.

"After more than 18 months, the WMD investigation and debriefing of the
WMD-related detainees has been exhausted," wrote Charles Duelfer, head of
the Iraq Survey Group, in an addendum to the final report he issued last
fall.

"As matters now stand, the WMD investigation has gone as far as feasible."

In 92 pages posted online Monday evening, Duelfer provides a final look at
an investigation that occupied over 1,000 military and civilian translators,
weapons specialists and other experts at its peak. His latest addenda
conclude a roughly 1,500-page report released last fall.

On Monday, Duelfer said there is no purpose in keeping many of the detainees
who are in custody because of their knowledge on Iraq's weapons, although he
did not provide any details about the current number. A U.S. official, who
spoke on condition of anonymity, said the ultimate decision on their release
will be made by the Iraqi authorities.


Warnings about Saddam's experts

The survey group also provided warnings.

The addenda conclude that Saddam's programs created a pool of experts now
available to develop and produce weapons and many will be seeking work.
While most will probably turn to the "benign civil sector," the danger
remains that "hostile foreign governments, terrorists or insurgents may seek
Iraqi expertise."

"Because a single individual can advance certain WMD activities, it remains
an important concern," one addendum said.

Another addendum also noted that military forces in Iraq may continue to
find small numbers of degraded chemical weapons - most likely misplaced or
improperly destroyed before the 1991 Gulf War. In an insurgent's hands, "the
use of a single even ineffectual chemical weapon would likely cause more
terror than deadlier conventional explosives," another addendum said.

And still another said the survey group found some potential nuclear-related
equipment was "missing from heavily damaged and looted sites." Yet, because
of the deteriorating security situation in Iraq, the survey group was unable
to determine what happened to the equipment, which also had alternate
civilian uses.

"Some of it probably has been sold for its scrap value. Other pieces might
have been disassembled" and converted into motors or condensers, an addendum
said. "Still others could have been taken intact to preserve their
function."

Small team still in place
Leaving the door to the investigation open just a crack, the U.S. official
said a small team still operates under the U.S.-led multinational force in
Iraq, although the survey group officially disbanded earlier this month.
Those staying on continue to examine documents and follow up on any reports
of weapons of mass destruction.

In a statement accompanying the final installment, Duelfer said a surprise
discovery would most likely be in the biological weapons area because clues,
such as the size of the facilities used to develop them, would be
comparatively small.

Among unanswered questions, Duelfer said a group formed to investigate
whether WMD-related material was shipped out of Iraq before the invasion
wasn't able to reach firm conclusions because the security situation limited
and later halted their work. Investigators were focusing on transfers from
Iraq to Syria.

No information gleaned from questioning Iraqis supported the possibility,
one addendum said. The Iraq Survey Group believes "it was unlikely that an
official transfer of WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place. However,
ISG was unable to rule out unofficial movement of limited WMD-related
materials."
Cliff
2007-04-20 08:35:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by RONSERESURPLUS
Post by Cliff
Found those "WMDs" yet?
Famous Republican saying: "Everything is fine in politics as long as you
don't get caught in bed with a live man, or a dead woman."
"I add up to a Republican Senate and Republican House. You may end up
with a different math but you are entitled to your math and I'm entitled
to THE math." - Karl Rove
[
Quotes: Family Guy: Peter
[Riding a circus elephant]
Peter: Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a
fat white guy who is threatened by change.
]
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different
results." - Albert Einstein
--
Cliff- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Cliff
As a matter of fact, Yes, many WMD's have been found, in Iraq,
None. You are a liar as are the liars that washed what few brain
cells you have left.
Post by RONSERESURPLUS
and
in some were even sent as scrap to Rotterdam and a welder was killed
trying to cut up a live scud rocketmotor!
So scrap exploded. So what? Could heve been filled with
firecrackers or black powder too.
Post by RONSERESURPLUS
I know Idiots like you have
no clue and the fact that they had more thna a year to hide the
majority, fools you, it's doern't us!
Hide WHAT WHERE? Huge rewards & nobody has a clue, right?

CLUE: Saddam told the truth: "No "WMDs".
Your beloved packs of morons lied to you, as usual.
Post by RONSERESURPLUS
OH and as I was in Iraq, Iran
and Afgainstan and was doing a lot of the real work, what were you
doing during that time? Sitting on your ass in some peace ralley? LOL
What an idiot!
Find any "WMDs"? Nope.
BTW, You were a terrorist or war criminal in those three places?
WHY?

There don't seem to be any at all in Iraq .... just
as many have known all along .... Hussain Kamal had been
in charge of all such programs & long ago defected (in 1995)
... AFTER he had (on Saddam's orders) had them all (what
few there may once have been) destroyed.

"The interview was conducted in Amman on 22 August 1995, 15 days after Kamel
left Iraq."
[
In the transcript of the interview, Kamel states categorically:

"I ordered destruction of all chemical weapons. All weapons - biological,
chemical, missile, nuclear were destroyed"
]

Consider:
So when the neocons claimed that they knew & had irrefutable proof
and refused to tell any that asked?
When they set up their plans to tell lies?

Can you use this excuse to break into your neighbor's house,
steal his things, murder him & his family, burn the house down,
call all your other neighbors that would not help you "terrorists",
and get off with huge prizes from the police?

"Officer, someday he might have had a BB gun in his basement. If
he ever got one he might have hurt someone's cat or invaded
Antartica with it ."

It's murder, pure & simple. Of about ~ 650,000 ++ ... plus
~ 2,000,000 now homeless IN Iraq and another ~ 2,000,000
(those that could afford it) refugees in other nations. Of those
~ 4,000,000 the US has taken in about 20 over all the years.

"If any one bring an accusation of any crime before the elders, and
does not prove what he has charged, he shall, if it be a capital
offense charged, be put to death." - Third Law, The Code of Hammurabi
written in about 1786 BC. In what is now (or was) Iraq.

The Neocon Menace is worse by far than the Communist Menace
ever was.
http://www.lincoln-ma.com/news_archive/documentpages/peacebuilders.htm

Famous Republican saying: "Everything is fine in politics as long as you
don't get caught in bed with a live man, or a dead woman.”

"I add up to a Republican Senate and Republican House. You may end up
with a different math but you are entitled to your math and I'm entitled
to THE math." - Karl Rove

[
Quotes: Family Guy: Peter
[Riding a circus elephant]
Peter: Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a
fat white guy who is threatened by change.
]

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different
results." - Albert Einstein

Considering the events of recent years, the US has a long way
to go to regain its credibility and reputation with the world.

"Moogs, would you buy it for a quarter?"
--
Cliff
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2007-04-20 09:37:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by RONSERESURPLUS
As a matter of fact, Yes, many WMD's have been found, in Iraq,
and
in some were even sent as scrap to Rotterdam and a welder was killed
trying to cut up a live scud rocketmotor!
i would suggest think about it a moment but are you capable of the load?

scrap

you know what scrap is? its when you have something you longer want
and so you try to get what value you can from the left over metal

i have no idea if your is true
but assuming it is what does it mean?
it means iraq voluntarily destroyed missiles it found were beyond the range limit
as demanded

what did you want them to do with the missiles?
keep them intact so you could use that as an excuse?
Post by RONSERESURPLUS
I know Idiots like you have
no clue and the fact that they had more thna a year to hide the
majority, fools you, it's doern't us!
hide them where? everywhere the usa claimed they were hidden
the usa went to and find nothing

the usa found nothing
Post by RONSERESURPLUS
OH and as I was in Iraq, Iran
and Afgainstan and was doing a lot of the real work, what were you
so? am i supposed to be impressed?

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
Vendicar Decarian
2007-04-15 07:12:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
After the then illegal abortion(s) he got his girlfriend(s) with family
connections?
Ya but that was when he was a cocaine swilling RepubliKKKan with strong
family values.
Post by Cliff
Catch the latest on conservative family-values Wolfowitz? Sounds
like many of the actual professional staff at the World Bank (where
he was turned loose after aiding in creation of the war messes per
HIS plans) are in open revolt.
You mean his ordering the world bank staffers to agree to a redefinition
of his girlfriend as a private contracting agent - and the immediate
increase in her wage of 8%?

How do you order someone to agree by the way? Isn't that a perfect
example of corruption right there?

And then there is the issue of him being caught violating the
organizations rules involving personal relationships between workers, and
then the issue of him trying to violate ethics rules by simply claiming that
she was an independent organization rather than an individual.

It seems to me that NeoKKKon Wolfowitz, who has a long history of
absolute corruption, remains absolutely corrupt - with the full support of
the White House.

Surprise. Surprise.. Surprise....
Post by Cliff
"The dog ate our Emails !!" (Note: Federal government paying for the
repub & neocon party expenses.)
More RepubliKKKan Corruption? It must be trivaial because I don't see any
other AmeriKKKans complaining.
Cliff
2007-05-02 10:19:38 UTC
Permalink
Harry Potter MUST BE STOPPED !!
I don't know about all that. But I have read all of the Harry Potter
books. I read the first one (my son's) and I have to say for a
series aimed at kids, they are very well written and entertaining.
So I suppose I'll have to read the last one when it comes out, just
to see how it all ends. Plus it gives us something to do together
and to talk about which is always a good thing.
http://www.hpana.com/news.17092.html
http://childrensbooks.about.com/cs/censorship/a/burningbooks.htm
She seems confused. A public protest and book burning is actually
freedom of speech, not censorship.
No doubt they would try to censor the libraries & schools.
That's what courts are for.
No, they are not.
If it were the government banning the sale of or
burning the book, then it would be censorship.
Which ones are now banned?
The neocons have been removing information right & left.
Yeah, you can't hardly find a Harry Potter book anywhere.
Which has litte to do with fundies burning such books & trying
to censor them out of places such as libraries.
Not that I would expect you
to understand or appreciate the difference.
You clearly do not.
You're a hypocrite. You would gleefully support their right to free speech
if they were burning the flag or an effigy of the president.
Now there's an idea ....
Obviously you only support speech that you agree with. Clue: that isn't
freedom of speech.
They are entirely free to speak.
What you object to is others being against book burning & censorship,
both often much beloved by wingers & fundies.
I expect that they might be happy to burn YOUR books too.


Tried getting a copy of "The Anarchst's Cookbook" lately?
"The Devil's Dictionary"?

They may be taking names ....
--
Cliff
D Murphy
2007-05-05 00:40:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
No doubt they would try to censor the libraries & schools.
That's what courts are for.
No, they are not.
Yes they are.

Legislators have been known to pass unconstitutional laws. Especially if
there is money or votes in it for them. The courts are the balance that
sets things right.

About that civics class...
--
Dan

CNC Videos - <http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d>
Stuart Grey
2007-05-05 02:33:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by D Murphy
Post by Cliff
No doubt they would try to censor the libraries & schools.
That's what courts are for.
No, they are not.
Yes they are.
Legislators have been known to pass unconstitutional laws. Especially if
there is money or votes in it for them. The courts are the balance that
sets things right.
About that civics class...
Civics class! Ah yes.

The idea was that the legislature wouldn't pass an unconstitutional law,
but if they did,
The executive wouldn't sign an unconstitutional law,
but if they did,
The courts wouldn't adjudicate against anyone found in conflict with an
unconstitutional law,
but if they did,
The people would rise up and overthrow their own government by force of
arms.

We only get as good as a government as we are willing to tolerate. People
who think that the courts are the end all and be all of constitutional
rights and constitutional law are very much part of the problem that
caused our constitution to be ignored.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2007-05-05 02:41:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Grey
We only get as good as a government as we are willing to tolerate. People
who think that the courts are the end all and be all of constitutional
rights and constitutional law are very much part of the problem that
caused our constitution to be ignored.
so what alternatives are there for a sovereign citizen?

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
Stuart Grey
2007-05-05 02:57:31 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 04 May 2007 19:41:22 -0700, mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
Post by Stuart Grey
We only get as good as a government as we are willing to tolerate. People
who think that the courts are the end all and be all of constitutional
rights and constitutional law are very much part of the problem that
caused our constitution to be ignored.
so what alternatives are there for a sovereign citizen?
meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
I know you're a nut job, and you're probably not being serious, but there
is little an lone individual can do when a nation of 300,000,000 people
has 299,999,000 people who are sheep.

You can move to a nation where there aren't sheep. However, the people of
the United States believed that everyone who came to the United States
wanted to be free. Sadly, their naive view was wrong. The vast majority of
the incoming hoards wanted to make money, and the US was good for that, OR
they wanted to mooch off the U.S.'s generous public dole. I don't know of
a better place to be.

The only other real alternative would be to open up a school where true
critical thinking is taught. You don't get this in public schools, and I
know of only one private university that teaches the traditional liberal
arts. The light a candle against the darkness approach doesn't seem to be
economically viable. I do have a plan for just such a university, should
someone want to front the money for it, however.

The last option is to curse the darkness, head for the hinterlands, and
stay quietly out of the way as the world goes to hell. Which brings us to
misc.survivalism.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2007-05-05 03:07:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Grey
On Fri, 04 May 2007 19:41:22 -0700, mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
Post by Stuart Grey
We only get as good as a government as we are willing to tolerate. People
who think that the courts are the end all and be all of constitutional
rights and constitutional law are very much part of the problem that
caused our constitution to be ignored.
so what alternatives are there for a sovereign citizen?
meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
I know you're a nut job, and you're probably not being serious, but there
is little an lone individual can do when a nation of 300,000,000 people
has 299,999,000 people who are sheep.
You can move to a nation where there aren't sheep. However, the people of
the United States believed that everyone who came to the United States
wanted to be free. Sadly, their naive view was wrong. The vast majority of
the incoming hoards wanted to make money, and the US was good for that, OR
they wanted to mooch off the U.S.'s generous public dole. I don't know of
a better place to be.
The only other real alternative would be to open up a school where true
critical thinking is taught. You don't get this in public schools, and I
know of only one private university that teaches the traditional liberal
which one?
Post by Stuart Grey
arts. The light a candle against the darkness approach doesn't seem to be
economically viable. I do have a plan for just such a university, should
someone want to front the money for it, however.
The last option is to curse the darkness, head for the hinterlands, and
stay quietly out of the way as the world goes to hell. Which brings us to
misc.survivalism.
meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
Gunner
2007-05-05 14:02:15 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 04 May 2007 21:57:31 -0500, "Stuart Grey"
Post by Stuart Grey
I know you're a nut job, and you're probably not being serious, but there
is little an lone individual can do when a nation of 300,000,000 people
has 299,999,000 people who are sheep.
Lee Harvey Oswald


Gunner

"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gullshit in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33
Stuart Grey
2007-05-05 14:20:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
On Fri, 04 May 2007 21:57:31 -0500, "Stuart Grey"
Post by Stuart Grey
I know you're a nut job, and you're probably not being serious, but there
is little an lone individual can do when a nation of 300,000,000 people
has 299,999,000 people who are sheep.
Lee Harvey Oswald
Gunner
I am not at all convinced that Oswald acted independently.

Some times, it really might have been a conspiracy. I don't think he was a
lone individual.
Gunner
2007-05-05 14:58:25 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 05 May 2007 09:20:43 -0500, "Stuart Grey"
Post by Stuart Grey
Post by Gunner
On Fri, 04 May 2007 21:57:31 -0500, "Stuart Grey"
Post by Stuart Grey
I know you're a nut job, and you're probably not being serious, but there
is little an lone individual can do when a nation of 300,000,000 people
has 299,999,000 people who are sheep.
Lee Harvey Oswald
Gunner
I am not at all convinced that Oswald acted independently.
(actually..me either)
Post by Stuart Grey
Some times, it really might have been a conspiracy. I don't think he was a
lone individual.
True enough..but I had to toss in a zinger.

<G>

Gunner

"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gullshit in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33
D Murphy
2007-05-05 01:08:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Not that I would expect you
to understand or appreciate the difference.
You clearly do not.
You're a hypocrite. You would gleefully support their right to free
speech if they were burning the flag or an effigy of the president.
Now there's an idea ....
I knew you would love that idea.
Post by Cliff
Obviously you only support speech that you agree with. Clue: that
isn't freedom of speech.
They are entirely free to speak.
What you object to is others being against book burning &
censorship,
both often much beloved by wingers & fundies.
You seem confused. It was YOU that objected to book burning. I objected to
YOU trying to limit free speech. I happen to believe if you want to burn a
book in protest, it is your constitutional right to do so.
Post by Cliff
I expect that they might be happy to burn YOUR books too.
As long as they pay for the books I couldn't care less what they do to
them.

HTH.
--
Dan

CNC Videos - <http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d>
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2007-05-05 01:25:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by D Murphy
You seem confused. It was YOU that objected to book burning. I objected to
YOU trying to limit free speech. I happen to believe if you want to burn a
book in protest, it is your constitutional right to do so.
and how often does congress try to outlaw flag burning?

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
D Murphy
2007-05-05 02:54:14 UTC
Permalink
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
Post by mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
Post by D Murphy
You seem confused. It was YOU that objected to book burning. I
objected to YOU trying to limit free speech. I happen to believe if
you want to burn a book in protest, it is your constitutional right
to do so.
and how often does congress try to outlaw flag burning?
Every election cycle.
--
Dan

CNC Videos - <http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d>
Cliff
2007-05-06 10:25:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by D Murphy
Post by Cliff
Not that I would expect you
to understand or appreciate the difference.
You clearly do not.
You're a hypocrite. You would gleefully support their right to free
speech if they were burning the flag or an effigy of the president.
Now there's an idea ....
I knew you would love that idea.
Post by Cliff
Obviously you only support speech that you agree with. Clue: that
isn't freedom of speech.
They are entirely free to speak.
What you object to is others being against book burning &
censorship,
both often much beloved by wingers & fundies.
You seem confused. It was YOU that objected to book burning. I objected to
YOU trying to limit free speech. I happen to believe if you want to burn a
book in protest, it is your constitutional right to do so.
I pointed out examples of conservative, winger & fundie behavior <G>.
Bound to meet with your approval, right?

HTH
--
Cliff
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