Discussion:
Hitler / Nazis Were Christians
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Where did you get those China Blue jeans
2009-09-07 11:53:48 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 21:15:33 -0700, Where did you get those China Blue
On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 20:26:29 -0700, Where did you get those China Blue
Hitler Was a Christian
(SNIPPED)
.
.
Don't try to introduce religion into an arena where it doesn't
belong. The Holocaust was brought about by the belief that one group
of humans was better, superior, and more deserving than another
group. Nothing else.
RO
And how is that not a characteristic of religions?
If that is a characteristic of the religious, then mass murder would not
occur
do
a
literature search and tell us whether atheists running a society never do
the
mass murder thing.
Here's a clue, imbecile: what does not believing in pixies make YOU
do?
Please phrase that in the form of a verifiable scientific hypothesis. Like I
did. It's not my fault if you don't like the scientific answer.
Where did you do that, imbecile?
Why don't you answer the question?
Because not believing in pixies is no different than not believing in
gods.
Which word are you pretending you didn't understand?
You're so scientific when you're frothing.
--
Damn the living - It's a lovely life. I'm whoever you want me to be.
Silver silverware - Where is the love? At least I can stay in character.
Oval swimming pool - Where is the love? Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Damn the living - It's a lovely life. We support you, Sarah.
Where did you get those China Blue jeans
2009-09-07 16:37:55 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 20:26:29 -0700, Where did you get those China Blue
Hitler Was a Christian
(SNIPPED)
.
.
Don't try to introduce religion into an arena where it doesn't
belong. The Holocaust was brought about by the belief that one group
of humans was better, superior, and more deserving than another
group. Nothing else.
RO
And how is that not a characteristic of religions?
If that is a characteristic of the religious, then mass murder would not
occur
among the non-religious.
How do you come up with that conclusion? One identifiable cause of
genocide or atrocity does not mean there are not other possible
causes. Your statement is roughly as accurate as saying that bad tires
Your claim, roughly speaking, is
M = A(R) mass murder is characteristic of religion by process A
A verifiable hypothesis would then be
M1 = A(~R)
and that M and M1 are signficantly different.

When you're asked to verify your claim scientifically you assert that
M2 = B(~R) mass murder is characteristic of nonreligious
by some other process B
and then even if M and M2 are signficantly the same, M1 is still signficantly
smaller, even though M1 is unmeasurable.

I would point out

(1) You're cheating because you're making a nonverifiable hypothesis. You are
free to make whatever claim you want about M1 because you claim it is not
measurable.

(2) I don't give a flying fuck whether process A or B is responsible. If
religion is more violent because it is inherent to religion, then nonreligion
must be less violent because it is nonreligion. If there is no observable
difference, then whatever processes, A, B, C, ... you claim cause the violence
in religion, one of these process also cause violence in nonreligion. Again, you
cheat.

You don't do science very well. That's what I would expect of religious nutcase
like you.
--
Damn the living - It's a lovely life. I'm whoever you want me to be.
Silver silverware - Where is the love? At least I can stay in character.
Oval swimming pool - Where is the love? Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Damn the living - It's a lovely life. We support you, Sarah.
unknown
2009-09-07 19:38:33 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:37:55 -0700, Where did you get those China Blue
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 20:26:29 -0700, Where did you get those China Blue
Hitler Was a Christian
(SNIPPED)
.
.
Don't try to introduce religion into an arena where it doesn't
belong. The Holocaust was brought about by the belief that one group
of humans was better, superior, and more deserving than another
group. Nothing else.
RO
And how is that not a characteristic of religions?
If that is a characteristic of the religious, then mass murder would not
occur
among the non-religious.
How do you come up with that conclusion? One identifiable cause of
genocide or atrocity does not mean there are not other possible
causes. Your statement is roughly as accurate as saying that bad tires
Your claim, roughly speaking, is
M = A(R) mass murder is characteristic of religion by process A
A verifiable hypothesis would then be
M1 = A(~R)
and that M and M1 are signficantly different.
When you're asked to verify your claim scientifically you assert that
M2 = B(~R) mass murder is characteristic of nonreligious
by some other process B
and then even if M and M2 are signficantly the same, M1 is still signficantly
smaller, even though M1 is unmeasurable.
I think you are reducing it to a formula which proves nothing
regarding how or if religion has or has not contributed to genocide.
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
I would point out
(1) You're cheating because you're making a nonverifiable hypothesis. You are
free to make whatever claim you want about M1 because you claim it is not
measurable.
(2) I don't give a flying fuck whether process A or B is responsible.
Reducing one process/motivation should reduce the undesirable result
of that process/motivation. Sounds like plausible logic to me. I'm
sure you can come up with a formula/equation to disprove that.
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
If
religion is more violent because it is inherent to religion, then nonreligion
must be less violent because it is nonreligion.
Do you say if, as in saying that I made the claim that a religious
factor is a bigger factor than others? I did not say that. It may or
may not be -supposing one could properly tally them, but I'm speaking
about religiously motivated, or religion being the vehicle by which
genocide can occur. I can't show my work formulaically how power or
greed or hunger or sex or any number of other contributing factors may
be involved to various degrees, but I don't think that any formula or
equation can demonstrate that things like power/greed/ideology etc are
all quantifiable in short equations so as to remove them as possible
causes or render them irrelevant.
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
If there is no observable difference,
What kind of observations are you talking about? The statistical one
of how many are dead from it? That dead bodies in a field look alike?
If you observed the rallying speeches and the propaganda preceding the
genocide and heard the rhetoric as they marched off to kill, how can
you not consider those as observable differences in the process?
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
then whatever processes, A, B, C, ... you claim cause the violence
in religion, one of these process also cause violence in nonreligion. Again, you
cheat.
Is your argument that fear or lust for control or greed or whatever
are the real and underlying factors, therefore religion is not a
possible motivation?
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
You don't do science very well. That's what I would expect of religious nutcase
like you.
I am not a scientist, nor a mathematician, so what.
It appears that your scientific method in this must have a significant
flaw, you concluding that I am religious. I'd suggest that you don't
do science as well as you think you do, just a thought.
Do you have a formula to show how or why I am a nutcase? I'd love to
see it.
Where did you get those China Blue jeans
2009-09-08 01:39:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
I think you are reducing it to a formula which proves nothing
regarding how or if religion has or has not contributed to genocide.
In short, you don't want to approach the matter logically and rationally. You
want to go with your emotions and prejudices.
Post by unknown
Reducing one process/motivation should reduce the undesirable result
But according to Uncle Al, other processes will leave a nonreligious society
just as murderous: reducing religion will have no effect. WHich means your
continued harping on the subject is not about improving society, but it is about
inflicting your bigotry on society.
Post by unknown
Do you say if, as in saying that I made the claim that a religious
factor is a bigger factor than others? I did not say that. It may or
Then getting rid of religion won't help.
Post by unknown
may not be -supposing one could properly tally them, but I'm speaking
about religiously motivated, or religion being the vehicle by which
genocide can occur. I can't show my work formulaically how power or
And what about all the other vehicles for mass murder?
Post by unknown
greed or hunger or sex or any number of other contributing factors may
be involved to various degrees, but I don't think that any formula or
equation can demonstrate that things like power/greed/ideology etc are
all quantifiable in short equations so as to remove them as possible
causes or render them irrelevant.
Your assumptions are contrary to science; you are rejecting science.
--
Damn the living - It's a lovely life. I'm whoever you want me to be.
Silver silverware - Where is the love? At least I can stay in character.
Oval swimming pool - Where is the love? Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Damn the living - It's a lovely life. We support you, Sarah.
unknown
2009-09-08 04:12:19 UTC
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On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:39:01 -0700, Where did you get those China Blue
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
Post by unknown
I think you are reducing it to a formula which proves nothing
regarding how or if religion has or has not contributed to genocide.
In short, you don't want to approach the matter logically and rationally. You
want to go with your emotions and prejudices.
Bullshit, religion has been involved in motivating genocide, it's an
historical fact, and nothing to do with my emotions or prejudices.
Are you simply arguing for sport or what?
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
Post by unknown
Reducing one process/motivation should reduce the undesirable result
But according to Uncle Al, other processes will leave a nonreligious society
just as murderous: reducing religion will have no effect. WHich means your
continued harping on the subject is not about improving society, but it is about
inflicting your bigotry on society.
Who's Uncle Al? Is there a reason why I have to adopt his opinion, as
you apparently have?
If my contention is that religion played a role in a genocide, and
removing that religious factor would have likely reduced or possibly
prevented that genocide, how am I inflicting anything on anybody? Do
you think your opinions actually have any effect on any large group?
Personally I do think that a world without religion or faith in the
supernatural is probably an improvement.
Religion inflicts bigotry on society. Got a formula disproving that?
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
Post by unknown
Do you say if, as in saying that I made the claim that a religious
factor is a bigger factor than others? I did not say that. It may or
Then getting rid of religion won't help.
I think it would help, it wouldn't remove any other causalities but
one less way to motivate and execute genocide is a good thing.
We(in our lifetimes anyway) will never have the chance to test that
though will we?
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
Post by unknown
may not be -supposing one could properly tally them, but I'm speaking
about religiously motivated, or religion being the vehicle by which
genocide can occur. I can't show my work formulaically how power or
And what about all the other vehicles for mass murder?
What about them? We are talking about the religious factor. At least
that's all I was talking about. The thread is "Hitler / Nazis Were
Christians", did you notice that? There is a lot of info available
that clearly shows christianity was involved in rallying the Germans,
informing Hitler, and contributed to genocide. I'm not making this up
and I have no burden of proof, go get it for yourself. Try google
instead of scratching equations. As impressive as they may look to
you, your equations and scientific speech doesn't refute historical
fact.
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
Post by unknown
greed or hunger or sex or any number of other contributing factors may
be involved to various degrees, but I don't think that any formula or
equation can demonstrate that things like power/greed/ideology etc are
all quantifiable in short equations so as to remove them as possible
causes or render them irrelevant.
Your assumptions are contrary to science; you are rejecting science.
So you are saying science shows that religion is not a factor in
genocide, and since I disagree with you I am rejecting science.
If this is your logic and rationale, you must be really entertaining
when you are irrational and illogical.
Got an equation/formula that explains how all factors related to
genocide are valued and how all the variables are calculated?
I dont think it can be done, because I think that too many irrational
and unpredictable things are involved. Such as irrational humans,
greed etc. That's not rejecting science, it's admitting that some
things about our human existence are unpredictable, very fucked up,
and don't follow scientific rules or laws.
Got an equation for showing why people believe in gods?
Are you rejecting science if you don't have that equation or think
there is not an equation for it?
There is some good work on why people believe in gods, but I didn't
see any equations, perhaps you know them?
Where did you get those China Blue jeans
2009-09-08 04:38:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:39:01 -0700, Where did you get those China Blue
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
Post by unknown
I think you are reducing it to a formula which proves nothing
regarding how or if religion has or has not contributed to genocide.
In short, you don't want to approach the matter logically and rationally. You
want to go with your emotions and prejudices.
Bullshit, religion has been involved in motivating genocide, it's an
historical fact, and nothing to do with my emotions or prejudices.
Are you simply arguing for sport or what?
You are arguing for going inside people's head and changing how their minds
work. I think you should have something stronger than your current
unsubstantiated, emotional ranting to back that up. So let's be scientific about
this: if you claim religion causes violence, it would follow nonreligion would
have signficantly less violence. There have been atheist governments. So do the
experiment: are atheist governments signficantly less violent less religious
ones? Why are you afraid of examining the evidence?
Post by unknown
Personally I do think that a world without religion or faith in the
supernatural is probably an improvement.
Religion inflicts bigotry on society. Got a formula disproving that?
How do I prove a negative? This is your hypothesis; it's your responsibility to
support it. PPOR.
Post by unknown
I think it would help, it wouldn't remove any other causalities but
You think a lot of things, just like those dead Greek guys. You're equally
unwilling to put your thinkings up to any kind of objective test.
Post by unknown
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
Your assumptions are contrary to science; you are rejecting science.
So you are saying science shows that religion is not a factor in
What I am showing is you are not willing to use science to test your beliefs,
just like any other religious knucklehead.
--
Damn the living - It's a lovely life. I'm whoever you want me to be.
Silver silverware - Where is the love? At least I can stay in character.
Oval swimming pool - Where is the love? Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Damn the living - It's a lovely life. We support you, Sarah.
unknown
2009-09-08 06:56:19 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:38:17 -0700, Where did you get those China Blue
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
Post by unknown
On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:39:01 -0700, Where did you get those China Blue
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
Post by unknown
I think you are reducing it to a formula which proves nothing
regarding how or if religion has or has not contributed to genocide.
In short, you don't want to approach the matter logically and rationally. You
want to go with your emotions and prejudices.
Bullshit, religion has been involved in motivating genocide, it's an
historical fact, and nothing to do with my emotions or prejudices.
Are you simply arguing for sport or what?
You are arguing for going inside people's head and changing how their minds
work.
You brought that up not me, I did not say that I knew how to or wanted
to "go inside people's head" to change how their mind works.
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
I think you should have something stronger than your current
unsubstantiated, emotional ranting to back that up.
Keep thinking.
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
So let's be scientific about
this: if you claim religion causes violence,
That changes my statement, I said religion was a motivating factor in
many genocides, not that it is the only cause of violence.
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
it would follow nonreligion would
have signficantly less violence. There have been atheist governments. So do the
experiment: are atheist governments signficantly less violent less religious
ones? Why are you afraid of examining the evidence?
I doubt there is enough clear examples to demonstrate your proposal.
There are/were not very many atheist governments, some of them have
extreme conditions that pollute the experiment, such as Pol Pot was a
frickin maniac and religion was a bug up his ass, North Korea has a
god-like figure in the head of state. The Soviet Union was all over
the board on religion from persecuting some to supporting others,
agreed that it was officially atheist and there were a lot of people
killed by the government, and a lot of deaths and terror happened by
nonreligious factors. Rapid industrialization with tryannical methods
probably the biggest root cause killer, wasn't it?
I suppose China, Cuba, and Albania could be what you are looking for?
Also there is a huge list of officially secular governments,
separating authority from religion, but with widely varying degrees of
religion throughout those countries. Which ones would you pick from
that group? All of them? None?
There are some theocracies now and in history, which of those do you
choose or should they even be included?
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
Post by unknown
Personally I do think that a world without religion or faith in the
supernatural is probably an improvement.
Religion inflicts bigotry on society. Got a formula disproving that?
How do I prove a negative? This is your hypothesis; it's your responsibility to
support it. PPOR.
You had a formula to disprove religion was a factor in genocide,
getting choosy?

This page is a collection of relevant events:
http://www.burningcross.net/crusades/christian-missionary-atrocities.html
http://tinyurl.com/2f6uk5
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2f6uk5
These events were all clearly motivated by the christian religion.
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
Post by unknown
I think it would help, it wouldn't remove any other causalities but
You think a lot of things, just like those dead Greek guys. You're equally
unwilling to put your thinkings up to any kind of objective test.
So Pythagoras, Socrates, Aristotle, Hippocrates, are all nonscientific
dotards.
I don't have any expectation that an objective test is do-able,
there's too much pollution.
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
Post by unknown
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
Your assumptions are contrary to science; you are rejecting science.
So you are saying science shows that religion is not a factor in
What I am showing is you are not willing to use science to test your beliefs,
just like any other religious knucklehead.
I wouldn't trust you to be objective.
I do get your point that other factors exist, but you don't get my
point that religion is one of those factors, and has been clearly
recorded in history.
Topaz
2009-09-09 01:27:51 UTC
Permalink
By Robert Faurisson
In what respect is Elie Wiesel a witness to the alleged gas chambers?
By what right does he ask us to believe in that means of
extermination? In an autobiographical book that supposedly describes
his experiences at Auschwitz and Buchenwald, he nowhere mentions the
gas chambers. [2] He does indeed say that the Germans executed Jews,
but ... by fire; by throwing them alive into flaming ditches, before
the very eyes of the deportees! No less than that!
Here Wiesel the false witness had some bad luck. Forced to choose from
among several Allied war propaganda lies, he chose to defend the fire
lie instead of the boiling water, gassing, or electrocution lies. In
1956, when he published his testimony in Yiddish, the fire lie was
still alive in certain circles. This lie is the origin of the term
Holocaust. Today there is no longer a single historian who believes
that Jews were burned alive. The myths of the boiling water and of
electrocution have also disappeared. Only the gas remains.
The gassing lie was spread by the Americans. [3] The lie that Jews
were killed by boiling water or steam (specifically at Treblinka) was
spread by the Poles. [4] The electrocution lie was spread by the
Soviets. [5]
The fire lie is of undetermined origin. It is in a sense as old as war
propaganda or hate propaganda. In his memoir, Night, which is a
version of his earlier Yiddish testimony, Wiesel reports that at
Auschwitz there was one flaming ditch for the adults and another one
for babies. He writes: [6]
Not far from us, flames were leaping from a ditch, gigantic flames.
They were burning something. A lorry drew up at the pit and delivered
its load-little children. Babies! Yes, I saw it-saw it with my own
eyes ... Those children in the flames. (Is it surprising that I could
not sleep after that? Sleep has fled from my eyes.)
A little farther on there was another ditch with gigantic flames where
the victims suffered "slow agony in the flames." Wiesel's column was
led by the Germans to within "three steps" of the ditch, then to "two
steps." "Two steps from the pit we were ordered to turn to the left
and made to go into a barracks."
An exceptional witness himself, Wiesel assures us of his having met
other exceptional witnesses. Regarding Babi Yar, a place in Ukraine
where the Germans executed Soviet citizens, among them Jews, Wiesel
wrote: [7]
Later, I learn from a witness that, for month after month, the ground
never stopped trembling; and that, from time to time, geysers of blood
spurted from it.
These words did not slip from their author in a moment of frenzy:
first, he wrote them, then some unspecified number of times (but at
least once) he had to reread them in the proofs; finally, his words
were translated into various languages, as is everything this author
writes.
That Wiesel personally survived, was, of course, the result of a
miracle. He says that: [8]
In Buchenwald they sent 10,000 persons to their deaths each day. I was
always in the last hundred near the gate. They stopped. Why?
In 1954 French scholar Germaine Tillion analyzed the "gratuitous lie"
with regard to the German concentration camps. She wrote: [9]
Those persons [who gratuitously lie] are, to tell the truth, much more
numerous than people generally suppose, and a subject like that of the
concentration camp world-well designed, alas, to stimulate
sado-masochistic imaginings-offered them an exceptional field of
action. We have known numerous mentally damaged persons, half
swindlers and half fools, who exploited an imaginary deportation; we
have known others of them-authentic deportees-whose sick minds strove
to go even beyond the monstrosities that they had seen or that people
said had happened to them. There have been publishers to print some of
their imaginings, and more or less official compilations to use them,
but publishers and compilers are absolutely inexcusable, since the
most elementary inquiry would have been enough to reveal the
imposture.
Tillion lacked the courage to give examples and names. But that is
usually the case. People agree that there are false gas chambers that
tourists and pilgrims are encouraged to visit, but they do not tell us
where. They agree that there are false "eyewitnesses," but in general
they name only Martin Gray, the well-known swindler, at whose request
Max Gallo, with full knowledge of what he was doing, fabricated the
bestseller For Those I Loved.
Jean-François Steiner is sometimes named as well. His bestselling
novel Treblinka (1966) was presented as a work of which the accuracy
of every detail was guaranteed by oral or written testimony. In
reality it was a fabrication attributable, at least in part, to the
novelist Gilles Perrault. [10] Marek Halter, for his part, published
his La Mémoire d'Abraham in 1983; as he often does on radio, he talked
there about his experiences in the Warsaw ghetto. However, if we are
to believe an article by Nicolas Beau that is quite favorable to
Halter, [11] little Marek, about three years old, and his mother left
Warsaw not in 1941 but in October of 1939, before the establishment of
the ghetto there by the Germans. Halter's book is supposed to have
been actually written by a ghost writer, Jean-Noël Gurgan.
Filip Müller is the author of Eyewitness Auschwitz: Three Years in the
Gas Chambers, [12] which won the 1980 prize of the International
League against Racism and Anti-Semitism (LICRA). This nauseous
best-seller is actually the work of a German ghost writer, Helmut
Freitag, who did not hesitate to engage in plagiarism. [13] The source
of the plagiarism is Auschwitz: A Doctor's Eyewitness Account, another
best-seller made up out of whole cloth and attributed to Miklos
Nyiszli. [14]
Thus a whole series of works presented as authentic documents turns
out to be merely compilations attributable to various ghost writers:
Max Gallo, Gilles Perrault, Jean-Noël Gurgan (?), and Helmut Freitag,
among others.
We would like to know what Germaine Tillion thinks about Elie Wiesel
today. With him the lie is certainly not gratuitous. Wiesel claims to
be full of love for humanity. However, he does not refrain from an
appeal to hatred. In his opinion: [15]
Every Jew, somewhere in his being, should set apart a zone of
hate-healthy, virile hate-for what the German personifies and for what
persists in the German. To do otherwise would be a betrayal of the
dead.
At the beginning of 1986, 83 deputies of the German Bundestag took the
initiative of proposing Wiesel for the Nobel Peace Prize. This would
be, they said, "a great encouragement to all who are active in the
process of reconciliation." [16] That is what might be called "going
from National Socialism to national masochism."
Jimmy Carter needed a historian to preside over the President's
Commission on the Holocaust. As Dr. Arthur Butz said so well, he chose
not a historian but a "histrion": Elie Wiesel. Even the newspaper Le
Monde, in the article mentioned above, was obliged to refer to the
histrionic trait that certain persons deplore in Wiesel:
Naturally, even among those who approve of the struggle of this
American Jewish writer, who was discovered by the Catholic François
Mauriac, some reproach him for having too much of a tendency to change
the Jewish sadness into "morbidity" or to become the high priest of a
"planned management of the Holocaust."
As Jewish writer Leon A. Jick has written: "The devastating barb,
'There is no business like SHOAH-business' is, sad to say, a
recognizable truth." [17]
Elie Wiesel issues alarmed and inflammatory appeals against
Revisionist authors. He senses that things are getting out of hand. It
is going to become more and more difficult for him to maintain the mad
belief that the Jews were exterminated or were subjected to a policy
of extermination, especially in so-called gas chambers. Serge
Klarsfeld has admitted that real proofs of the existence of the gas
chambers have still not yet been published. He promises proofs. [18]
On the scholarly plane, the gas chamber myth is finished. To tell the
truth, that myth breathed its last breath several years ago at the
Sorbonne colloquium in Paris (June 29-July 2, 1982), at which Raymond
Aron and François Furet presided. What remains is to make this news
known to the general public. However, for Elie Wiesel it is of the
highest importance to conceal that news. Thus all the fuss in the
media, which is going to increase: the more the journalists talk, the
more the historians keep quiet.
But there are historians who dare to raise their voices against the
lies and the hatred. That is the case with Michel de Boüard, wartime
member of the Resistance, deportee to Mauthausen, member of the
Committee for the History of the Second World War from 1945 to 1981,
and a member of the Institut de France. In a poignant interview in
1986, he courageously acknowledged that in 1954 he had vouched for the
existence of a gas chamber at Mauthausen where, it finally turns out,
there never was one. [19]
The respect owed to the sufferings of all the victims of the Second
World War, and, in particular, to the sufferings of the deportees,
demands on the part of historians a return to the proven and
time-honored methods of historical criticism.
Summary
Elie Wiesel passes for one of the most celebrated eyewitnesses to the
alleged Holocaust. Yet in his supposedly autobiographical book Night,
he makes no mention of gas chambers. He claims instead to have
witnessed Jews being burned alive, a story now dismissed by all
historians. Wiesel gives credence to the most absurd stories of other
"eyewitnesses." He spreads fantastic tales of 10,000 persons sent to
their deaths each day in Buchenwald.
When Elie Wiesel and his father, as Auschwitz prisoners, had the
choice of either leaving with their retreating German "executioners,"
or remaining behind in the camp to await the Soviet "liberators," the
two decided to leave with their German captors.
It is time, in the name of truth and out of respect for the genuine
sufferings of the victims of the Second World War, that historians
return to the proven methods of historical criticism, and that the
testimony of the Holocaust "eyewitnesses" be subjected to rigorous
scrutiny rather than unquestioning acceptance.


http://www.ihr.org/ www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/

http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Dave Heil
2009-09-10 01:48:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
By Robert Faurisson
In what respect is Elie Wiesel a witness to the alleged gas chambers?
By what right does he ask us to believe in that means of
extermination? In an autobiographical book that supposedly describes
his experiences at Auschwitz and Buchenwald, he nowhere mentions the
gas chambers. [2] He does indeed say that the Germans executed Jews,
but ... by fire; by throwing them alive into flaming ditches, before
the very eyes of the deportees! No less than that!
Here Wiesel the false witness had some bad luck. Forced to choose from
among several Allied war propaganda lies, he chose to defend the fire
lie instead of the boiling water, gassing, or electrocution lies. In
1956, when he published his testimony in Yiddish, the fire lie was
still alive in certain circles. This lie is the origin of the term
Holocaust. Today there is no longer a single historian who believes
that Jews were burned alive. The myths of the boiling water and of
electrocution have also disappeared. Only the gas remains.
The gassing lie was spread by the Americans. [3] The lie that Jews
were killed by boiling water or steam (specifically at Treblinka) was
spread by the Poles. [4] The electrocution lie was spread by the
Soviets. [5]
The fire lie is of undetermined origin. It is in a sense as old as war
propaganda or hate propaganda. In his memoir, Night, which is a
version of his earlier Yiddish testimony, Wiesel reports that at
Auschwitz there was one flaming ditch for the adults and another one
for babies. He writes: [6]
Not far from us, flames were leaping from a ditch, gigantic flames.
They were burning something. A lorry drew up at the pit and delivered
its load-little children. Babies! Yes, I saw it-saw it with my own
eyes ... Those children in the flames. (Is it surprising that I could
not sleep after that? Sleep has fled from my eyes.)
A little farther on there was another ditch with gigantic flames where
the victims suffered "slow agony in the flames." Wiesel's column was
led by the Germans to within "three steps" of the ditch, then to "two
steps." "Two steps from the pit we were ordered to turn to the left
and made to go into a barracks."
An exceptional witness himself, Wiesel assures us of his having met
other exceptional witnesses. Regarding Babi Yar, a place in Ukraine
where the Germans executed Soviet citizens, among them Jews, Wiesel
wrote: [7]
Later, I learn from a witness that, for month after month, the ground
never stopped trembling; and that, from time to time, geysers of blood
spurted from it.
first, he wrote them, then some unspecified number of times (but at
least once) he had to reread them in the proofs; finally, his words
were translated into various languages, as is everything this author
writes.
That Wiesel personally survived, was, of course, the result of a
miracle. He says that: [8]
In Buchenwald they sent 10,000 persons to their deaths each day. I was
always in the last hundred near the gate. They stopped. Why?
In 1954 French scholar Germaine Tillion analyzed the "gratuitous lie"
with regard to the German concentration camps. She wrote: [9]
Those persons [who gratuitously lie] are, to tell the truth, much more
numerous than people generally suppose, and a subject like that of the
concentration camp world-well designed, alas, to stimulate
sado-masochistic imaginings...
Your lies are so easily disproved by those who were there. Wikipedia says:
quote
In 1940 Romania lost the town of Sighet following the Second Vienna
Award. In 1944 Elie, his family and the rest of the town were placed in
one of the two ghettos in Sighet. Elie and his family lived in the
larger of the two, on Serpent Street. On May 16, 1944, the Hungarian
authorities allowed the German army to deport the Jewish community in
Sighet to Auschwitz Birkenau. While at Auschwitz, his inmate number,
"A-7713", was tattooed onto his left arm. Wiesel was separated from his
mother and sister Tzipora, who are presumed to have died at Auschwitz.
Wiesel and his father were sent to the attached work camp Buna-Werke, a
subcamp of Auschwitz III Monowitz. He managed to remain with his father
for a year as they were forced to work under appalling conditions and
shuffled between three concentration camps in the closing days of the
war. On January 29, 1945, just a few weeks after the two were marched to
Buchenwald, Wiesel's father died from dysentery, starvation, and
exhaustion, and was later sent to the crematorium, only months before
the camp was liberated by the American Third Army on April 11.[3]
unquote

More on Wiesel's life can be found at:

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1986/wiesel-bio.html
Topaz
2009-09-11 01:16:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Heil
Your lies are so easily disproved by those who were there.
""Eyewitness reports" include those of Elie Wiesel, an Auschwitz
"survivor" who in his famous book NIGHT described the throwing of
truckloads of Jews into blazing trenches to burn to death, adults in
one blazing trench and babies in another. He claimed that he "saw it
with my own eyes!" and furthermore that he himself was marched up to a
blazing trench many times, but for some reason (presumably a miracle)
was never thrown in. No serious scholar now believes the story of Jews
being burned to death, though that is the origin of the term
"Holocaust" in this connection.
Wiesel seems to have pretty much dropped the fiction of burning Jews
to death, since no one believes that story anymore anyway. The
question is:
Why, since he was a prisoner at Auschwitz for so long, did he not
regale the reader with stories of gas chambers in that early book?
(Obvious answer:
There WERE no gas chambers at Auschwitz, and the whole gas-chamber
mythology did not really become popular until after he had written the
book.)"
Seneca
Post by Dave Heil
quote
In 1940 Romania lost the town of Sighet following the Second Vienna
Award. In 1944 Elie, his family and the rest of the town were placed in
one of the two ghettos in Sighet. Elie and his family lived in the
larger of the two, on Serpent Street. On May 16, 1944, the Hungarian
authorities allowed the German army to deport the Jewish community in
Sighet to Auschwitz Birkenau. While at Auschwitz, his inmate number,
"A-7713", was tattooed onto his left arm. Wiesel was separated from his
mother and sister Tzipora, who are presumed to have died at Auschwitz.
Wiesel and his father were sent to the attached work camp Buna-Werke, a
subcamp of Auschwitz III Monowitz. He managed to remain with his father
for a year as they were forced to work under appalling conditions and
shuffled between three concentration camps in the closing days of the
war. On January 29, 1945, just a few weeks after the two were marched to
Buchenwald, Wiesel's father died from dysentery, starvation, and
exhaustion,
In both the two existing delousing chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau
Concentration Camp in Poland, there is irrefutable visual and forensic
evidence that Zyklon B cyanide had been used to kill lice which
carried deadly typhus. The blue markings inside and outside through
twenty-six centimeters of brickwork are still there today sixty years
after the end of WWII.

In the alleged gas chambers there is NO visual or forensic evidence of
zyclon B cyanide ever being used.

There are also no airtight doors on any so-called "gas chambers".
They look like ordinary rooms.


About how many Jews and other prisoners died in the camps?

-Competent estimates range from about 300,000 to 500,000.

How did the prisoners die?

-Mainly from recurring typhus epidemics that ravaged war-torn
Europe during the war, as well as from starvation and lack of medical
attention during the final months of the conflict, when virtually all
road and rail transportation had been bombed out by the Allies.

What is typhus?

-This disease always appears when many people are jammed together
under unsanitary conditions. It is carried by lice that infest hair
and clothes. Ironically, if the Germans had used more Zyklon B, more
Jews might have survived the camps.
Post by Dave Heil
and was later sent to the crematorium, only months before
the camp was liberated by the American Third Army on April 11.[3]
unquote
Amazing! He shows there were crematorium for dead people, which no one
ever denied.

He wrote " Wiesel's father died from dysentery, starvation, and
exhaustion". What, no gas?



http://www.ihr.org/ www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/

http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
unknown
2009-09-08 17:15:56 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:38:17 -0700, Where did you get those China Blue
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
examining the evidence?
Here's some evidence, look at sections [15] and [18] and [20]

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
http://tinyurl.com/dycnt
http://preview.tinyurl.com/dycnt
This indicates that more theistic societies are more violent than less
theistic ones. It also indicates other measures are worse in higher
theistic societies, but you were focused on violence, yes?



I rethought what I said about atheist governments, Cuba is officially
atheist, but is over 90% catholic. Albania is also over 90% populated
with theists. One point against China being a candidate is that
communism is like religion in how it attempts to forcibly control
beliefs, violently in some cases.

It appears to me that citable evidence will come from comparisons
similar to the link above, and a general composite of many things.
Stuff such as homophobia, largely driven by religious belief, probably
increases the suicide rate of teen gays, different studies vary the
statistic, but I found attempt rates of 4 to 8 times, and completion
about double(in the first link).

http://www.doe.mass.edu/cnp/hprograms/yrbs/05/ch6.pdf
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/123/1/346

There are other factors obviously, similar to the problem of isolating
factors comparing religious/nonreligious governments. Teen gays are at
higher risk of other things too, but suicide is one of the
statistically strongest components. The second link speaks directly
to family rejection.
Where did you get those China Blue jeans
2009-09-08 18:20:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:38:17 -0700, Where did you get those China Blue
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
examining the evidence?
Here's some evidence, look at sections [15] and [18] and [20]
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
http://tinyurl.com/dycnt
http://preview.tinyurl.com/dycnt
This indicates that more theistic societies are more violent than less
theistic ones. It also indicates other measures are worse in higher
theistic societies, but you were focused on violence, yes?
It's pretty easy to see this is a flawed study: rather than deal with countries
that are unambiguously theist and atheist, Paul decides for himself which of a
handful of economically related countries are secular or religious. But as seen
in the fight over adding Turkey to EU, and the recent electoral success of
nationalist parties promoting christianity over islam, secular Europe may be
less secular than it at first appears.

I suspect anyone calling Japan the least religious nation is depending on their
own cultural bias about what religion is, rather than an objective study.

See also: http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2006/2006-1.html
Post by unknown
with theists. One point against China being a candidate is that
communism is like religion in how it attempts to forcibly control
beliefs, violently in some cases.
And thus you redefine words to make your hypothesis work. You have prejudge that
religion is the root of all suffering; when you come against counterexamples,
you have redefined 'religion' so that it is still the root of all suffering even
when it has nothing to do with most people consider religion. It's called
cognitive dissonance: when a person's beliefs do not match reality, one solution
is to alert perceptions to match beliefs.
Post by unknown
It appears to me that citable evidence will come from comparisons
I found http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/welcome.html quickly enough. Maybe it
includes citable evidence. The introduction claims that ending violence depends
on increasing freedom, and does not mention interfering with freedom of
conscience. Maybe you should complain to authour.
--
Damn the living - It's a lovely life. I'm whoever you want me to be.
Silver silverware - Where is the love? At least I can stay in character.
Oval swimming pool - Where is the love? Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
Damn the living - It's a lovely life. We support you, Sarah.
unknown
2009-09-08 23:48:21 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 11:20:19 -0700, Where did you get those China Blue
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
Post by unknown
On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:38:17 -0700, Where did you get those China Blue
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
examining the evidence?
Here's some evidence, look at sections [15] and [18] and [20]
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
http://tinyurl.com/dycnt
http://preview.tinyurl.com/dycnt
This indicates that more theistic societies are more violent than less
theistic ones. It also indicates other measures are worse in higher
theistic societies, but you were focused on violence, yes?
It's pretty easy to see this is a flawed study: rather than deal with countries
that are unambiguously theist and atheist, Paul decides for himself which of a
handful of economically related countries are secular or religious. But as seen
in the fight over adding Turkey to EU, and the recent electoral success of
nationalist parties promoting christianity over islam, secular Europe may be
less secular than it at first appears.
Good point, it's a difficult thing to measure in any case. The
Northern European countries appear to be less theistic than the
others.
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
I suspect anyone calling Japan the least religious nation is depending on their
own cultural bias about what religion is, rather than an objective study.
See also: http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2006/2006-1.html
Excellent find, thanks.
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
Post by unknown
with theists. One point against China being a candidate is that
communism is like religion in how it attempts to forcibly control
beliefs, violently in some cases.
And thus you redefine words to make your hypothesis work. You have prejudge that
religion is the root of all suffering;
That is very much overstating it, again. Never did I infer or imply or
say that religion is the root of all evil, not even close. You are
setting up a strawman, and it doesn't help our discourse.
You also altered the topic beyond the original post, I am reading your
links and indeed they show that the absolute power governments are the
most violent, I have no disagreement with that. That's pretty common
knowledge as well, nicely done in your link but none the less beyond
the original discussion. Agreed, totalitarian tranny is abhorent, and
the world is better rid of it.
The first link you posted in this message invalidates the one I
posted, fine, I accept that, but it also lays out obstacles for the
experiment you challenged me with.
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
when you come against counterexamples,
you have redefined 'religion' so that it is still the root of all suffering even
when it has nothing to do with most people consider religion.
Explain to me what my definition of religion is, and how it is
different from "most people" and why that refutes my statement that
religion has been a factor in genocides. PPOR?
I'll help you out on that one, I include the christianity that was
practised and manipulated by the Nazis. Is that acceptable so far?
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
It's called
cognitive dissonance: when a person's beliefs do not match reality, one solution
is to alert perceptions to match beliefs.
Checked a mirror lately?
Speaking of prejudice and cognitive dissonance, how many times do I
have to tell you I am not saying that religion is the root of all evil
or suffering. I said that religion has been a factor in genocide, and
not the only factor. You apparently want to paint me as an extremist
so you can rail against me, and you are supplying more presumption
than I did.
From the website you linked:
"A second motive is deeply emotional and involves the destruction of
those who are hated, despised, or conversely are envied or resented.
The genocide of Jews throughout history and in particular the
Holocaust was fundamentally an act of religious and ethnic hatred
mixed with envy and resentment over their disproportionate economic
and professional achievements. Similarly with the genocide of the
Armenians in Turkey, 1915-18, where Armenians enjoyed wealth and
professional status far beyond their numbers, but also were hated as
Christians in a Moslem society."
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/GENOCIDE.ENCY.HTM

They included religion as a factor, even describing it as a
fundamental factor, perhaps you want to complain to the author? Note
that it is referring to the same event that this thread is labeled
for.

"A fourth motive is purification, or the attempt to eliminate from
society perceived alien beliefs, cultures, practices, and ethic
groups. "Ethnic cleansing," "waste disposal," or "prophylaxis," are
terms for this. Examples are the systematic attempt of Mao Tse-tung
and Stalin to eliminate disbeliveers from their communist societies;
the attempt to do the same **by Christianity** during the Middle Ages;
the **elimination of Christian groups and Moslem** "blasphemers" in
**many current Islamic countries** such as in Iran and Saudi Arabia;
the ethnic cleansing that the Serbians practiced in Bosnia-Herzegovina
in the 1990s; and the war that the Myanmar (Burmese) military have
been carrying out against the Karen and other ethnic groups."
(I inserted **)
Post by Where did you get those China Blue jeans
Post by unknown
It appears to me that citable evidence will come from comparisons
I found http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/welcome.html quickly enough. Maybe it
includes citable evidence. The introduction claims that ending violence depends
on increasing freedom, and does not mention interfering with freedom of
conscience. Maybe you should complain to authour.
It's great stuff, and it would be slapping me down if it actually was
confined to what I have been trying to tell you repeatedly.
Increasing freedoms have also been happening with the secularization
of the world away from governments heavily influenced or controlled by
religions. Coincidence?
Totalitarian/communist regimes are obviously hugely responsible for
mass murder, I never defended them, it's beyond the scope of the
thread, and, the high level view of that research doesn't go into
what's relevant to the religious factors, such as the Nazi regime.
It also starts at 1900, eliminating the majority of historical events
directly influenced by religion, we never mentioned a time limitation.
Topaz
2009-09-11 01:23:33 UTC
Permalink
Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:


"The fight which Fascist Italy waged against Jewry's three
principal weapons, the profound reasons for which may not of been
consciously understood (though I do not believe this myself) furnishes
the best proof that the poison fangs of that Power which transcends
all State boundaries are being drawn, even though in an indirect way.
The prohibition of Freemasonry and secret societies, the suppression
of the supranational Press and the definite abolition of Marxism,
together with the steadily increasing consolidation of the Fascist
concept of the State--all this will enable the Italian Government, in
the course of some years, to advance more and more the interests of
the Italian people without paying any attention to the hissing of the
Jewish world-hydra.
"The English situation is not so favorable. In that country
which has 'the freest democracy' the Jew dictates his will, almost
unrestrained but indirectly, through his influence on public opinion."


http://www.ihr.org/ www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/

http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Topaz
2009-09-09 01:29:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
There are other factors obviously, similar to the problem of isolating
factors comparing religious/nonreligious governments. Teen gays
you mean cock suckers
Post by unknown
are at
higher risk of other things too, but suicide is one of the
statistically strongest components. The second link speaks directly
to family rejection.
http://www.ihr.org/ www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/

http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
unknown
2009-09-09 01:46:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
Post by unknown
There are other factors obviously, similar to the problem of isolating
factors comparing religious/nonreligious governments. Teen gays
you mean cock suckers
the females too?
Topaz
2009-09-09 01:26:26 UTC
Permalink
Here is part of the Leuchter Report:
"Thirty-one samples were selectively removed from the alleged gas
chambers at Kremas I, II, III, IV and V. A control sample was taken
from delousing facility #1 at Birkenau. The control sample was removed
from a delousing chamber in a location where cyanide was known to have
been used and was apparently present as blue staining. Chemical
testing of the control sample #32 showed a cyanide content of 1050
mg/kg, a very heavy concentration. The conditions at areas from which
these samples were taken are identical with those of the control
sample, cold, dark, and wet. Only Kremas IV and V differed, in the
respect that these locations had sunlight (the buildings have been
torn down) and sunlight may hasten the destruction of uncomplexed
cyanide. The cyanide combines with the iron in the mortar and brick
and becomes ferric-ferro-cyanide or prussian blue pigmentation, a very
stable iron-cyanide complex.
"The locations from which the analyzed samples were removed are set
out in Table III.
"It is notable that almost all the samples were negative and that the
few that were positive were very close to the detection level
(1mg/kg); 6.7 mg/kg at Krema III; 7.9 mg/kg at Krerma I. The absense
of any consequential readings at any of the tested locations as
compared to the control sample reading 1050 mg/kg supports the
evidence that these facilities were not execution gas chambers. The
small quantities detected would indicate that at some point these
buildings were deloused with Zyklon B - as were all the buildings at
all these facilities"

http://www.ihr.org/ www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/

http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Dave Heil
2009-09-10 01:42:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
"Thirty-one samples were selectively removed from the alleged gas
chambers at Kremas I, II, III, IV and V...
Utter hogwash!

Wikipedia says:

The Leuchter report is a pseudoscientific[1] document authored by
American execution technician Fred A. Leuchter. In the defense of
Holocaust denier Ernst Zündel at his trial, Leuchter compiled the report
in 1988 with the intention of investigating the feasibility of mass
homicidal gassings at Nazi extermination camps; in particular, at
Auschwitz. However, during the trial Leuchter was dismissed as expert
witness as he had neither the qualifications nor experience to act in
such a position.

Leuchter chiefly cited the absence of Prussian blue in the homicidal gas
chambers in support of his view. However, residual iron-based cyanide
compounds are not a categorical consequence of cyanide exposure, yet by
not discriminating against that, Leuchter introduced an unreliable
factor into his experiment, and the outcome was seriously flawed as a
result. In contrast, fair tests conducted by Polish forensic scientists
which discriminated against iron-based compounds confirmed the presence
of cyanide in the locations and manner in accordance with where and how
it was claimed it was used.

The discredited report is still widely distributed among Holocaust deniers.
Topaz
2009-09-11 01:24:35 UTC
Permalink
"Wikipedia is a source where any biased individual who wishes can
enter an article. It is not a source educated intelligent people would
rely on..."
hugo

"I know that Wikipedia is as authoratative on a subject as is
scribbling on bathroom walls. But, do you know how far it goes? This
story concerns the father of Rahm Emmanuel, Benjamin Emanuel, who was
a jew-terrorist in Israel.

Jews don't want people knowing that Obama's selection for Chief of
Staff, Rahm Emanuel, is the son of a terrorist, so they have deleted
his entry on Wiki."

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/politics-religion-and-controversy/2209412-wikipedia-deletes-file-on-jew-terrorist-rahm-emmanuals-father.html


http://www.ihr.org/ www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/

http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Topaz
2009-09-09 01:25:54 UTC
Permalink
There was a book in ordinary bookstores called "An Empire of
Their Own". It was a pro-Jewish book but it showed that the Jews ran
Hollywood.

Here are some quotes from a magazine for Jews called "Moment".
It is subtitled "The Jewish magazine for the 90's" These quotes are
from the Aug 1996 edition after the Headline "Jews Run Hollywood - So
What?":

"It makes no sense at all to try to deny the reality of Jewish
power and prominence in popular culture. Any list of the most
influential production executives at each of the major movie studios
will produce a heavy majority of recognizably Jewish names."

"the famous Disney organization, which was founded by Walt
Disney, a gentile Midwesterner who allegedly harbored anti-Semetic
attitudes, now features Jewish personnel in nearly all its most
powerful positions."

The head of Walt Disney studios is now the Jew Michael Eisner.
On studios that were bought out by the Japanese the magazine says:

"When Mitsushita took over MCA-Universal, they did nothing to
undermine the unquestioned authority of Universal's legendary - and
all Jewish - management triad of Lew Wasserman, Sid Scheinberg, and
Tom Pollack."

Here are some quotes from the paper "Jews Control the Media
and Rule America"
It may be rather out of date but it still explains why things are the
way they are.

"American Broadcasting Companies (ABC), Columbia Broadcasting
System (CBS), and National Broadcasting Company (NBC). Each of these
three has been under the absolute control of a single man over a long
enough period of time--ranging from 32 to 55 years--for him to staff
the corporation at every level with officers of his choosing and then
to place his imprint indelibly upon it. In each case that man has been
a Jew.
"Until 1985, when ABC merged with Capital Cities
Communications, Inc...the chairman of the board of directors and chief
executive officer (CEO) of the network was Leonard Harry Goldenson, a
Jew...In an interview in the April 1, 1985 issue of Newsweek,
Goldenson boasted 'I built this company (ABC) from scratch.'"

"CBS was under the domination of William S. Paley for more than
half a century. The son of immigrant Jews from Russia..."

"There has been no move by top G-E management to change the
Jewish "profile" of NBC or to replace key Jewish personnel. To the
contrary, new Jewish executives have been added: an example is Steve
Friedman..."

"The man in charge of the television entertainment division at
CBS is Jeff Sagansky. At ABC the entertainment division is run by two
men....nearly all of the men who shape young Amercians' concept of
reality, of good and evil, of permissible and impermissible behavior
are Jews. In particular, Sagansky and Bloomberg are Jews. So is
Tartikoff. Littlefield is the only Gentile who has had a significant
role in TV entertainment programming in recent years."

"American Film magazine listed the top 10...entertainment
companies and their CEOs...Time Warner Communications (Steven J Ross,
Jew) Walt Disney Co. (Michael D. Eisner, Jew)...Of the 10 top
entertainment CEOs listed above, eight are Jews."

"The Newhouse media empire provides an example of more than a
lack of real competition among America's daily newspapers; it also
illustrates the insatiable appetite Jews have shown for all organs of
opinion... The Newhouse's own 31 daily newspapers, including several
large and important ones, such as the Cleveland Plain Dealer, the
Newark Star-Ledger, and the New Orleans Times-Picayune; the nation's
largest trade book publishing conglomerate, Random House, with all
its subsidiaries; Newhouse Broadcasting, consisting of 12 television
broadcasting stations and 87 cable-TV systems, including some of the
countries largest cable networks- the Sunday supplement Parade, with a
circulation of more than 22 million copies per week; some two dozen
major magazines, including the New Yorker, Vogue, Mademoiselle,
Glamour, Vanity Fair, HQ, Bride's, Gentlemen's Quarterly, Self,
Home&Garden...."

"Furthermore, even those newspapers still under Gentile ownership
and management are so thoroughly dependent upon Jewish advertising..."

"the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and the Washington
Post. These three...are the newspapers which set trends and guidelines
for nearly all others. They are the ones which decide what is news and
what isn't, at national and international levels. They originate the
news; the others merely copy it. And all three newspapers are in
Jewish hands...The Sulzberger family also owns, through the New York
Times Co. 36 other newspapers; twelve magazines, including McCall's
and Family Circle..."

"New York's other newspapers are in no better hands than the
Daily News. The New York Post is owned by billionaire Jewish
real-estate developer Peter Kalikow. The Village Voice is the personal
property of Leonard Stern, the billionaire Jewish owner of..."

"There are only three newsmagazines of any note published in the
United States: Time, Newsweek, and U.S. News & World Report....The CEO
of Time Warner Communications is Steven J. Ross, and he is a Jew.
"Newsweek, as mentioned above, is published by the Washington
Post Co., under the Jewess Katherine Meyer Graham..."
"U.S. News & World Report... owned and published by Jewish real
estate developer Mortimer B. Zuckerman..."

" The three largest book publishers...Random House... Simon &
Schuster , and Time Inc. Book Co....All three are owned or controlled
by Jews...The CEO of Simon & Schuster if Richard Snyder, and the
president is Jeremy Kaplan; both are Jews too."

"Western Publishing...ranks first among publishers of children's
books, with more than 50 per cent of the market. Its chairman and CEO
is Richard Bernstein, a Jew."

"Jewish spokesmen customarily will use evasive tactics. "Ted
Turner isn't a Jew!" they will announce..."

"We are doing more than merely giving them a decisive influence
on our political system and virtual control of our government; we also
are giving them control of the minds and souls of our children..."



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Topaz
2009-09-09 00:47:25 UTC
Permalink
The Holocaust Cowing and Milking of Nations By Alex Linder

'Holocaust': The Means by Which the Richest Group in the World
Contrives to Cow and Milk the Rest of the Us in the Guise of Victims
who are Persecuted and Due Eternal Restitution.

Reading through a thousand blog reactions to Duke v Blitzer on CNN, a
generalization crystallizes. People confuse being told something six
million times with knowing something. They are not the same. "It ain't
what you don't know, it's what you know that just ain't so." The
average man 'knows' the Holocaust exists because:

1) everybody uses the term;
2) he has seen photos of stacked bodies;
3) he has read Anne Frank's book;
4) authorities agree that questioning any of this is 'hate.'

In other words, the average man believes in the Holocaust for no
logical reason, but out of simple mammalian conformity.
'Holocaust' is a loaded, dishonest term. You can't debate with
undefined terms without making a joke of yourself, but the average man
does not realize this. It is the part of public school, reinforced by
mass media, to disable his thinking so that he's worse positioned to
defend himself because he can't understand how he is manipulated to
accept the illogical. Debate in the mass media of a democracy is
nothing but the shuffling of loaded terms.

'Holocaust' is no ordinary noun. Rather, it is a loaded gun leveled at
the head of the West and the rest. Give them their money and their
pride of place or get your head and reputation blown off. You will
notice that never, ever does debate in the captive media condescend to
deconstruct the Zionist Privilege embodied in and sanctified by the
designer label 'Holocaust.' Worship the Zionists and submit to their
demands - that is what the term Holocaust means.

A demand for special privilege protected by a shell of pseudo-history;
that is an objective description of the term. The heart of the
'Holocaust,' taking at face value the term's pretension to historical
designation, is the claim that six million Jews were murdered by Nazi
Germany, most of them by gassing. The evidence for the gassing is
never discussed. Photos of crematories and bodies stacked like cord
wood are shown. No context or explanation of the reason for showing
them is given. The connection is to be assumed. But never is any
ordinary evidence, let alone proof, of the gassing allegation
advanced. That Jews were gassed is treated as though it were already
proved and therefore unquestionable, save by the depraved. Thus, the
practical job of the media and the well intentioned everyman is to
smear and ostracize anybody who argues against settled truth. We all
know that Jews were gassed, and that those who say otherwise are
deniers driven by hate. But it ain't so just because "everybody knows"
it is.

We are told repeatedly that the 'Holocaust' is both the worst thing
that ever happened and the best documented thing in human history. We
are to take these assertions on authority, since no genuine debate is
allowed.

There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie. You can find
them in jail. Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass columnists. To
discuss these men and their work would endanger the Propa-sphere the
media construct. They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger. And there's
nothing you can do to stop us.



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Mike Duffy
2009-09-09 01:35:28 UTC
Permalink
He knows a friend personally (whose honesty he trusts) who has the personal
experience of having lost a relative. If you have a statistically-balanced
group of friends, there is a high probability that some are Jewish. Most of
them lost at least a grandparent or two to the Nazis. Talk to them about it
sometime. If needed, expand your circle of friends.

Mind you, I object to the Jewish-dominated media's tactic of co-opting the
word "Holocaust", because this belittles all of the other holocausts
perpetrated in the past by one group of people against another. Mao,
Stalin, and Pol Pot each exterminated more people than Hitler; thus the
word "holocaust" without a defining adjective should refer to one of these
three.

As far as that goes, the worst holocausts are the ones that are currently
ongoing, such as the one being carried out today by Israel against Arabs.

But this does not alter the fact that Hitler did, in fact, kill a large
number of Jews.
Topaz
2009-09-11 01:27:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Duffy
He knows a friend personally (whose honesty he trusts) who has the personal
experience of having lost a relative.
A lot of people lost relatives during World War Two. The wrong side
won the war, and the Germans didn't have execution gas chambers.
Post by Mike Duffy
If you have a statistically-balanced
group of friends, there is a high probability that some are Jewish. Most of
them lost at least a grandparent or two to the Nazis. Talk to them about it
sometime. If needed, expand your circle of friends.
Mind you, I object to the Jewish-dominated media's tactic of co-opting the
word "Holocaust", because this belittles all of the other holocausts
perpetrated in the past by one group of people against another. Mao,
Stalin, and Pol Pot each exterminated more people than Hitler; thus the
word "holocaust" without a defining adjective should refer to one of these
three.
In both the two existing delousing chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau
Concentration Camp in Poland, there is irrefutable visual and forensic
evidence that Zyklon B cyanide had been used to kill lice which
carried deadly typhus. The blue markings inside and outside through
twenty-six centimeters of brickwork are still there today sixty years
after the end of WWII.

In the alleged gas chambers there is NO visual or forensic evidence of
zyclon B cyanide ever being used.

There are also no airtight doors on any so-called "gas chambers".
They look like ordinary rooms.


About how many Jews and other prisoners died in the camps?

-Competent estimates range from about 300,000 to 500,000.

How did the prisoners die?

-Mainly from recurring typhus epidemics that ravaged war-torn
Europe during the war, as well as from starvation and lack of medical
attention during the final months of the conflict, when virtually all
road and rail transportation had been bombed out by the Allies.

What is typhus?

-This disease always appears when many people are jammed together
under unsanitary conditions. It is carried by lice that infest hair
and clothes. Ironically, if the Germans had used more Zyklon B, more
Jews might have survived the camps.
Post by Mike Duffy
As far as that goes, the worst holocausts are the ones that are currently
ongoing, such as the one being carried out today by Israel against Arabs.
But this does not alter the fact that Hitler did, in fact, kill a large
number of Jews.
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Mike Duffy
2009-09-11 01:54:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
-Competent estimates range from about 300,000 to 500,000.
I do not consider myself a qualified historian of that period, so I will
not argue the point about how many people died.

But I will probably consider more reliable those estimates from people who
use names as they appear on their accredation documents.

My friend (the Jew I mentioned in my last message) always goes by the name
on his driver's license, so for now I will consider his opinion more
credible than yours.


And what did you mean about the "wrong" side winning the war? I know it
would have been great for those of us here in Québec, but how would things
have been better for the average person? The Japanese would have NEVER
supported sharing power with Hitler (& vice versa) in the log run. If the
axis had won WW-II, it would have been followed immediately by WW-III.
Topaz
2009-09-12 16:51:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Duffy
I do not consider myself a qualified historian of that period, so I will
not argue the point about how many people died.
But I will probably consider more reliable those estimates from people who
use names as they appear on their accredation documents.
My friend (the Jew I mentioned in my last message) always goes by the name
on his driver's license, so for now I will consider his opinion more
credible than yours.
You have your head up your aft end, figuratively speaking.
Post by Mike Duffy
And what did you mean about the "wrong" side winning the war?
The bad people won the war.
Post by Mike Duffy
I know it
would have been great for those of us here in Québec, but how would things
have been better for the average person?
The Jews made a movie called "The House on Carroll Street". As soon
as the movie begins you notice how White everyone is. It does look
like 1951. It looks great. The main actress is a blonde. It is the
good old days. It is the way America was meant to be. As Archie Bunker
says "Do you remember when, girls were girls and men were men?"

So why are the Hollywood Jews making a movie like this? Well you
soon find out that the "bad guys" in the movie are Nazis.

Look at America now. There are non-Whites and race-mixing
everywhere. Anyone can see Black neighborhoods and not safe and not
where you want to live. America is slowly turning into a third world
country.

The Nazis were fighting for the real America. They were fighting for
civilization.

The Jews make the movies and control the media. You can hardly go to
the movies now without seeing race-mixing and feminism. Nazis aren't
the enemy, Jews are.
Post by Mike Duffy
The Japanese would have NEVER
supported sharing power with Hitler (& vice versa) in the log run. If the
axis had won WW-II, it would have been followed immediately by WW-III.
Nonsense. The Germans were not trying to take over the world.

"Precisely because we are nationally minded, for that very reason we
have respect for the national feelings of other peoples. And our
national pride does not mean we scorn other peoples, it means that we
respect and love our own people. It is precisely the Internationalists
who prevent peoples from coming to understand one another."
Adolf Hitler

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Wilson Woods
2009-09-11 03:30:28 UTC
Permalink
[crap snipped]
ok
Topaz
2009-09-12 16:59:15 UTC
Permalink
The National Socialists made a movie called "The Eternal Jew". Anyone
can see their movie and see that one of the main reasons they were
against the Jews was because the Jews were promoting homosexual
perversion in the media. Here is an article they made about the movie:

"The self-portrait Jewry offered the world was disgusting from the
beginning. All that is overshadowed by the powerful examples in this
new and most valuable film, The Eternal Jew. This film with its
persuasive power must be shown everywhere where anti-Semitism is still
questioned. No one will will fail to shudder at the sneaking servility
and dirty bartering of the Jews when they start out, at the perfidy,
insidiousness and vulgarity of their methods, at the brutality and
all-devouring hatred they exhibit when they reach their goal and
control finance.
The most revolting scenes show Jewish slaughtering methods. These
customs, which cast a particularly vivid spotlight on the so-called
Jewish religion, are so terrible that it is hard to watch the film as
the grinning Jewish butchers carry out their work. It is illuminating
to see how stubbornly Jewry holds to its method of slaughter and with
which casuistry it defends it against the horror of the civilized
world. Rarely will people feel more horror than which watching the
desperate and horrible death struggle of the slaughtered animals. Long
before the seizure of power, the NSDAP fought against Jewish
slaughter. National Socialist representatives in parliament repeatedly
introduced legislation to abolish this form of animal torture through
a ban on Jewish slaughter. Such proposals were always rejected, since
the entire Jewish and Jewish-influenced press ran long articles
against them and the so-called German parties refused to support
National Socialism in its battle against this evil.
Not only in this regard, but in other areas too we are reminded with a
shudder of what once was reality in Germany: the power of the Jews in
the economy, finance, culture, theater, film, publishing, press,
radio, education and politics. All these Jewish leaders of the Weimar
era had their home or their origin in the filthy ghettos of the East.
One has a deep sense of salvation after seeing this film. We have
broken their power over us. We are the initiators of the fight against
world Jewry, which now directs its hate, its brutal greed and
destructive will toward us. We must win this battle for ourselves, for
Europe, for the world. This film will be a valuable tool in that
struggle."


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Michael Ejercito
2009-09-11 16:58:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Duffy
He knows a friend personally (whose honesty he trusts) who has the personal
experience of having lost a relative.
  A lot of people lost relatives during World War Two. The wrong side
won the war, and the Germans didn't have execution gas chambers.
So you wanted the Japanese to continue the Rape of Nanking?


Michael
Topaz
2009-09-12 16:59:56 UTC
Permalink
On Nov. 26, 1941, Secretary of War Stimson wrote in his diary about
Japan, "The question was how we should maneuver them into firing the
first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves."

" Franklin Delano Roosevelt, dragged America into World War Two on
the wrong
side. FDR was one of the most personally corrupt politicians in world
history. John Toland, a famous author on World War Two, wrote a book
called "Infamy" detailing how FDR had prior knowledge of the
Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

Many people may wonder why FDR would not have warned his own
sailors and
soldier about an upcoming attack. Well, FDR wanted to go down in
history as
a great leader in war time, and the Axis Powers did not want war with
America. FDR was desperately afraid that the Japanese may change
their minds about attacking Pearl Harbor especially if there was any
indication at all that the element of surprise had been lost. For
example, if FDR had plainly told the commander at Pearl Harbor that
there existed intelligence that an attack was imminent, the commander
of Pearl Harbor would have sent out swarms of scout planes around
Pearl Harbor to search out the Japanese
fleet, and he may have ordered all the Battleships to leave harbor.
If the Japanese had no lucrative targets to attack OR if their fleet
had been spotted by a scout plane just one or two days prior to the
attack, there is a very strong chance that Japan would have cancelled
the attack and turned the fleet around. This was FDR's biggest fear:
that
peace might break out instead of war.

FDR literally would prefer to leave Hawaii defenseless and suffer
large casualties than to let the Japanese know that the element of
surprise had been lost. If the Japanese turned back, FDR would never
be a "great war leader" and would instead go down in history as a
failed President, who could not pull America out of the Great
Depression.
FDR probably did not think that the Japanese would be as successful
as they were, but he was willing to let Americans die needlessly
whether the body count was 200,
2000, or even 40,000. One of the most glaring hints that FDR was
aware of the upcoming attack was that NONE of the Navy's aircraft
carriers were in Pearl Harbor on December 7th. The sailors on those
ships were protected while the sailors on the Battleships were
sacrificial lambs for FDR's legacy.

FDR was referred to as the "criminal" by top leaders in the Third
Reich, and the facts surrounding FDR bear this out:

1) Not only did over two thousand American soldiers and sailors
die at Pearl Harbor due to FDR's treachery, another 80,000 American
soldiers in the Philippines were practically unarmed thanks to FDR,
resulting in 40,000 deaths. All their tanks, artillery, and fighters
were stolen from them and sent instead to the English and the
Communists
before Pearl Harbor. Thousands of these soldiers were killed when
they could not resist the Japanese invasion of the Philippines.
About half of these 80,000 American
soldiers were killed in action or died in captivity because FDR sent
weapons, that they desperately needed, to the Communists and the
English.

2) FDR sent 50 destroyers to the English almost at the start of
World War Two in complete defiance of the Neutrality act.

3) FDR sent two billion dollars in tanks, guns, fighters, and
other aid to the communists PRIOR TO PEARL HARBOR even though most
Americans considered
the Soviet Union the worst tyranny on earth and saw no reason to
save it. The Soviet Union probably would have been defeated by Hitler
if it were not for this huge amount of military aid. After Pearl
Harbor, it's well known that Churchill and FDR generously supplied
Stalin to keep him in power, but very few Americans are aware that
aid from FDR prior to Pearl Harbor kept Communism from collapsing
completely in 1941 during
the period from June through early December. This "Saviour of
Communism" title for FDR will eventually be the most damning line if
future accurate biographies of FDR are written in a world returned to
sanity.

4) Most Americans felt that they had fought World War One for
nothing, and there was a strong demand from them that America not
get involved in another war that was not America's business.

5) America passed the "Neutrality Act", which clearly positioned
America as non-involved in the war between Germany, England, and
France that broke out in September 1939.

6) FDR was basically an early version of Bill Clinton. He was one
of the most dishonest and scheming devils ever to be President. While
Clinton spent his dishonest talents on fighting off problems that
resulted from his uncontrolled sex drive, FDR was much more focused,
and actively carried out the will of the Jews and undermined the will
of the
American people.

7) The German General Erwin Rommel most certainly would have
captured the Suez Canal and the Mideast oil fields if it were not for
the massive quantities of tanks and guns sent by FDR to England to
save the corrupt drunk, Winston Churchill, who had secretly become a
stooge of the Jews, when a wealthy Jew took over Churchill's debts (so
that Churchill could both avoid going bankrupt or having to actually
work for a living as
British aristocrats hate to do).

Clearly, FDR behaved shamelessly in ignoring the will of the
American public and deliberately pushed America into World War Two.
FDR had failed miserably to get America out of the Great Depression,
and many Americans were getting tired of his failed attempts and may
have voted him out of office in 1940 if he had not LIED extensively
telling Americans "I hate war" and that he would keep America out of
World War
Two. A real populist with real ideas, Huey Long had been assassinated
before he could challenge FDR for the Democrat nomination (or as a
Third Party candidate)
conveniently eliminating a serious threat to FDR's continued
occupation of the White House.

FDR also provoked the Japanese multiple times by cutting off oil
shipments and scrap iron shipments to Japan, not to mention the
illegal CIA mercenary operation "The Flying Tigers", who were
murdering Japanese pilots for money before America was at war with
Japan. When the Japanese looked at these events, and FDR's support of
Stalin and Churchill, who were fighting Japan's allies, it is no
surprise that the Japanese felt that they had no choice, but to strike
at America before it struck at them.

Curiously, the Bible predicts in Revelations 11 and13 that a world
war will occur in which the devil wages a world war on the saints for
forty-two months and conquers the saints on this planet. FDR waged war
on Germany for exactly forty two months from December 1941 to May"
1945.

88!
Clark Kent


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Topaz
2009-09-09 00:39:10 UTC
Permalink
Auschwitz Museum Director
Reveals 'Gas Chamber' Hoax
By P. Samuel Foner
The Spotlight
Volume XIX, Number 2
5-31-4

In a dramatic and unprecedented videotaped interview, Dr. Franciszek
Piper, senior curator and director of archives of the Auschwitz State
Museum admitted on camera that 'Krema 1,' the alleged 'homicidal gas
chamber' shown off to hundreds of thousands of tourists every year at
the Auschwitz main camp, was, in fact, fabricated after the war by the
Soviet Union -apparently on the direct orders of Josef Stalin.

What Piper said - in effect and on camera - was that the explosive
1988 Leuchter Report was correct: no homicidal gassings took place in
the buildings designated as 'homicidal gas chambers' at Auschwitz.

With this admission by none other than the respected head of the
Auschwitz State Museum, one of the most sacred 'facts' of history has
been destroyed. This 'gas chamber' is the major historical 'fact' on
which much of the foreign and domestic policies of all Western nations
since WWII are based.

It is the basis for the $100+ billion in foreign aid the United States
has poured into the state of Israel since its inception in 1948 -
amounting to $16,500 for every man, woman and child in the Jewish
state and billions more paid by Germany in 'reparations' - not to
mention the constructing of Israel's national telephone, electrical
and rail systems...all gifts of the German people. It is the basis for
the $10 billion 'loan' (read 'gift') made to Israel for housing its
immigrants in the occupied territories...while Americans sleep on the
streets and businesses are bankrupted by the thousands. (Note - As of
2004, not a single 'loan' of US tax money made to the state of Israel
by Washington has ever been paid back. -ed)

Germany is paying 'reparations' - the United States is making
major contributions - to atone for the 'gassings at Auschwitz' and
elsewhere. If the 'homicidal gas chambers' were postwar creations of
the Soviets, in which no one was gassed regardless of race, creed,
color or country of national origin, then these 'reparations' were
unnecessary, and were based on fraud.

The videotape on which Dr. Piper makes his revelations was made in
mid-1992 by a young Jewish investigator, David Cole and follows 12
years of intensive investigation by dozens of historians, journalists
and scientists who have tried to get to the bottom of what really
happened at Auschwitz.

Like most Americans, since his youth, Cole had been instructed in the
'irrefutable fact' that mass homicidal gassings had taken place at
Auschwitz. The number of those executed - also declared irrefutable -
was 4.1 million.

Then came the Leuchter Report in 1988 which was followed with an
official 're-evaluation' of the total deaths at Auschwitz (down to 1.1
million). As a budding historian - and a Jew - Cole was intrigued.

Previous to 1992, anyone who publicly doubted or questioned the
official 4.1 millon 'gassing' deaths at Auschwitz was labeled an anti-
semite, neo-nazi skinhead at the very least. Quietly, because of
revisionist findings, the official figure was lowered to 1.1 million.
No mention was made of the missing 3 million.

The Cole videotape interview proves that the people who run the
Auschwitz State Museum had made a practice of fabricating 'proofs' of
homicidal gassings. Keep in mind that over the years millions of
tourists have been told that 'Krema 1' is in its original state, while
officials knew that 'original state' is a lie.

The political, religious, financial and historical ramifications of
this proof of no homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz cannot be
measured. Coupled with the Leuchter Report, the Cole interview with
Dr. Piper on videotape proves that what Western governments have
taught about the Auschwitz gas chamber since WWII is a lie. It proves
that what televangelists such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson have
been telling their flocks is simply not true.

No one, regardless of race, creed, color or country of national origin
was gassed to death in any building so designated at Auschwitz. And
without 'homicidal gas chambers' at Auschwitz, where is the reasoning
for the special treatment of the state of Israel?

Note - This is excerpted from the orginal, much longer article by P.
Samuel Foner.



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Dave Heil
2009-09-10 01:20:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
Auschwitz Museum Director
Reveals 'Gas Chamber' Hoax
By P. Samuel Foner
The Spotlight
Volume XIX, Number 2
5-31-4
In a dramatic and unprecedented videotaped interview, Dr. Franciszek
Piper, senior curator and director of archives of the Auschwitz State
Museum admitted on camera that 'Krema 1,' the alleged 'homicidal gas
chamber' shown off to hundreds of thousands of tourists every year at
the Auschwitz main camp, was, in fact, fabricated after the war by the
Soviet Union -apparently on the direct orders of Josef Stalin.
What Piper said - in effect and on camera - was that the explosive
1988 Leuchter Report was correct: no homicidal gassings took place in
the buildings designated as 'homicidal gas chambers' at Auschwitz.
Nope. Piper didn't say that verbatim or by implication. You're a repeat
liar.

For unvarnished truth, untouched by historical revisionism, see:

http://www.deathcamps.info/
Topaz
2009-09-11 01:36:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Heil
Post by Topaz
Auschwitz Museum Director
Reveals 'Gas Chamber' Hoax
By P. Samuel Foner
The Spotlight
Volume XIX, Number 2
5-31-4
In a dramatic and unprecedented videotaped interview, Dr. Franciszek
Piper, senior curator and director of archives of the Auschwitz State
Museum admitted on camera that 'Krema 1,' the alleged 'homicidal gas
chamber' shown off to hundreds of thousands of tourists every year at
the Auschwitz main camp, was, in fact, fabricated after the war by the
Soviet Union -apparently on the direct orders of Josef Stalin.
What Piper said - in effect and on camera - was that the explosive
1988 Leuchter Report was correct: no homicidal gassings took place in
the buildings designated as 'homicidal gas chambers' at Auschwitz.
Nope. Piper didn't say that verbatim or by implication. You're a repeat
liar.
It's on tape.

http://www.noontidepress.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=357
Filmed on location at the Auschwitz camp site in Poland, this stunning
video by Jewish-American investigator David Cole shows that the "gas
chamber" that has been displayed to hundreds of thousands of tourists
is actually a propaganda prop. Alicia, an official tour guide, assures
David Cole, on camera, that the "gas chamber" in the main camp that is
shown to visitors is in its original, unaltered state. Then Dr.
Franciszek Piper, head curator of the Auschwitz State Museum,
acknowledges to Cole that this "gas chamber" is actually a postwar
creation. This video also tackles other Holocaust claims, including
the "human soap" fable. Shows that fraudulent "proofs" of homicidal
gassings were produced after the end of World War II, and that
visitors to the Auschwitz camp site have been systematically deceived
for decades.


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Michael Ejercito
2009-09-11 16:59:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
Post by Topaz
Auschwitz Museum Director
Reveals 'Gas Chamber' Hoax
By P. Samuel Foner
The Spotlight
Volume XIX, Number 2
5-31-4
In a dramatic and unprecedented videotaped interview, Dr. Franciszek
Piper, senior curator and director of archives of the Auschwitz State
Museum admitted on camera that 'Krema 1,' the alleged 'homicidal gas
chamber' shown off to hundreds of thousands of tourists every year at
the Auschwitz main camp, was, in fact, fabricated after the war by the
Soviet Union -apparently on the direct orders of Josef Stalin.
What Piper said - in effect and on camera - was that the explosive
1988 Leuchter Report was correct: no homicidal gassings took place in
the buildings designated as 'homicidal gas chambers' at Auschwitz.
Nope.  Piper didn't say that verbatim or by implication. You're a repeat
liar.
It's on tape.
http://www.noontidepress.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35&produc...
Filmed on location at the Auschwitz camp site in Poland, this stunning
video by Jewish-American investigator David Cole shows that the "gas
chamber" that has been displayed to hundreds of thousands of tourists
is actually a propaganda prop. Alicia, an official tour guide, assures
David Cole, on camera, that the "gas chamber" in the main camp that is
shown to visitors is in its original, unaltered state. Then Dr.
Franciszek Piper, head curator of the Auschwitz State Museum,
acknowledges to Cole that this "gas chamber" is actually a postwar
creation. This video also tackles other Holocaust claims, including
the "human soap" fable. Shows that fraudulent "proofs" of homicidal
gassings were produced after the end of World War II, and that
visitors to the Auschwitz camp site have been systematically deceived
for decades.  
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A factory for death

by Jeff Jacoby
The Boston Globe
January 27, 2005

http://www.jeffjacoby.com/4996/a-factory-for-death

BY THE TIME the Soviet Army reached Auschwitz on Jan. 27, 1945 -- 60
years ago this week -- my father was no longer there. Ten days
earlier, the Nazis had evacuated about 67,000 of the death camp's
inmates, dispatching them on brutal forced marches to the west. My
father, then 19, was in a group sent into Austria. He ended up at the
concentration camp in Ebensee, near Mauthausen. Liberation there
didn't come until May 9, with the arrival of US soldiers from the 80th
Infantry Division.

My father had entered Auschwitz the previous spring, together with his
parents, his two brothers, and two of his three sisters. They, too,
were gone by the time the camp was liberated. Unlike my father, they
didn't leave on foot. They "left" through the chimney. For the
overwhelming majority of the more than 1.1 million Jews who were sent
to Auschwitz, there was no other exit.

Jews were not the only victims. Nearly 75,000 Poles, more than 20,000
Gypsies, 15,000 Soviets, and 10,000 members of other nationalities
were murdered at Auschwitz as well. The Nazis first used the camp, in
fact, as a prison for Polish dissidents, and Birkenau, the huge 1941
addition that became the main Auschwitz killing center, was originally
designed to hold Soviet POWs.

But beginning in the spring of 1942, Auschwitz became first and
foremost a slaughterhouse for Jews. From every corner of Europe, Jews
were sent there – from France in the west to Ukraine in the east, from
as far north as Norway and as far south as Greece. Many, like my
father and two of his siblings, were forced into slave labor, in the
expectation that the ghastly conditions and starvation rations would
kill them soon enough. But most of the Jews entering Auschwitz – like
my father's parents and his youngest brother and sister – were
murdered as soon as they arrived.

Auschwitz was a vast factory of death, the site of the greatest mass
murder in recorded history. Even now, two generations later, it is
almost impossible to grasp the scale on which the Nazis committed
homicide there. It is suggested by a detail: From 1942 to 1944, the
train platform in Birkenau was the busiest railway station in Europe.
It held that distinction despite the fact that, unlike every other
train station in the world, it saw only arrivals. No passengers ever
left.

But Auschwitz was not only a place of murder. It was also a place of
theft.

Jews were robbed of everything they owned – the luggage they came
with, the clothes on their backs, the hair on their heads, even the
gold in their teeth. The stolen goods were stored in 35 warehouses,
where they were sorted and packed for shipment to Germany. Before
fleeing in January 1945, the Nazis burned 29 of the warehouses, but in
just the six that remained, the Soviets found 348,820 men's suits,
836,255 dresses, and 43,525 pairs of shoes. There were seven
trainloads of bedding, waiting to be shipped. And 7.7 tons of human
hair. And that was merely what remained at the very end.

The very worst thing about Auschwitz was -- what? The staggering death
toll? The gas chambers disguised as showers, in which thousands of
naked Jews went daily to agonizing deaths? The endless cruelty and
torture? The diseases that ravaged those the Nazis didn't kill first?

Was it the inhuman medical experiments carried out by doctors like
Josef Mengele, such as the deliberate destruction of healthy organs,
or the sadistic abuse of twins and dwarfs? Was it the willing
exploitation of Jewish slave labor by German corporations? The tens of
thousands of murdered children and babies?

No.

The very worst thing about Auschwitz is that, for all its evil
immensity, it was only a fraction of the total. Even if it had never
been built, the Holocaust would still have been a crime without
parallel in human history. It would still have been something so
monstrous that a new word – genocide – would have had to be coined to
encompass it. Never before and never since has a government made the
murder of an entire people its central aim. And never before or since
has a government turned human slaughter into an international
industry, complete with facilities for transportation, selection,
murder, incineration. And none of it as a means to an end, but as an
end in itself: The reason for wiping out the Jews was so that the Jews
would be wiped out.

In the end, 6 million of them were killed. But only one-sixth died at
Auschwitz.

(Jeff Jacoby is a columnist for The Boston Globe.)
Topaz
2009-09-12 17:00:35 UTC
Permalink
During World War Two the Germans put Jews and Communists in
concentration camps. The USA locked also up the Japanese and their
political opponents and for less reason. At the end of the war there
was a lot of deaths in the German camps from disease and starvation
because Germany was being bombed to rubble. There is no evidence that
the Germans had gas chambers or an extermination plan.

Newsweek magazine May 15, 1989 says on page 64:

"the way the Nazis did things: the secrecy, the unwritten orders, the
destruction of records and the innocent-sounding code names for the
extermination of the Jews. Perhaps it was inevitable that historians
would quarrel over just what happened"

The real reason there are no records of an extermination plan is
because there was no extermination plan. The Germans planned to deport
the Jews out of Germany. The records show that they planned to move
them to Madagascar.

Here is part of the Leuchter Report:
"Thirty-one samples were selectively removed from the alleged gas
chambers at Kremas I, II, III, IV and V. A control sample was taken
from delousing facility #1 at Birkenau. The control sample was removed
from a delousing chamber in a location where cyanide was known to have
been used and was apparently present as blue staining. Chemical
testing of the control sample #32 showed a cyanide content of 1050
mg/kg, a very heavy concentration. The conditions at areas from which
these samples were taken are identical with those of the control
sample, cold, dark, and wet. Only Kremas IV and V differed, in the
respect that these locations had sunlight (the buildings have been
torn down) and sunlight may hasten the destruction of uncomplexed
cyanide. The cyanide combines with the iron in the mortar and brick
and becomes ferric-ferro-cyanide or prussian blue pigmentation, a very
stable iron-cyanide complex.
"The locations from which the analyzed samples were removed are set
out in Table III.
"It is notable that almost all the samples were negative and that the
few that were positive were very close to the detection level
(1mg/kg); 6.7 mg/kg at Krema III; 7.9 mg/kg at Krerma I. The absence
of any consequential readings at any of the tested locations as
compared to the control sample reading 1050 mg/kg supports the
evidence that these facilities were not execution gas chambers. The
small quantities detected would indicate that at some point these
buildings were deloused with Zyklon B - as were all the buildings at
all these facilities"

Professional holocaust believers have admitted that the "gas chamber"
which is shown to the tourists at Auschwitz was actually built by the
allies after the war was over. This is what they wrote:
Brian Harmon <***@msg.ucsf.edu> wrote in article
<080620000051136373%***@msg.ucsf.edu>...
"You're confusing Krema I with Kremas II-V. Krema I is a
reconstruction, this has never been a secret. Kremas II-V are in
their demolished state as they were left."
Charles Don Hall <cdhall-***@erols.com> wrote in article
<***@news.erols.com>...
"Certainly not! The word "fake" implies a deliberate attempt to
deceive.
"The staff of the Auschwitz museum will readily explain that the Nazis
tried to destroy the gas chambers in a futile attempt to conceal their
crimes. And they'll tell you that reconstruction was done later on. So
it would be dishonest for me to call it a "fake". I'll cheerfully
admit that it's a "reconstruction" if that makes you happy."
They admit that the "gas chamber" shown to the tourists at Auschwitz
was built by the allies after the war was over. There is no physical
evidence that the Germans had gas chambers. No bodies of people who
died from gas have been found. The Communists were the first to enter
the camps. How do the other allies know the Communists didn't blow up
the buildings? Then they could claim that these demolished buildings
used to be gas chambers.

But then the believers will say the Germans confessed. Their main
confession is from Hoess. Here are the details:
"In the introduction to Death Dealer [Buffalo: Prometheus, 1992], the
historian Steven Paskuly wrote: "Just after his capture in 1946, the
British Security Police were able to extract a statement from Hoess by
beating him and filling him with liquor." Paskuly was reiterating what
Rupert Butler and Bernard Clarke had already described.
In 1983, Rupert Butler published an unabashed memoir (Legions of
Death, Hamlyn: London) describing in graphic detail how, over three
days, he and Clarke and other British policemen managed to torture
Hoess into making a "coherent statement." According to Butler [Legions
of Death, p. 237], he and the other interrogators put the boots to
Hoess the moment he was captured. For starters, Clarke struck his face
four times to get Höess to reveal his true identity.
<quote>
The admission suddenly unleashed the loathing of Jewish sergeants in
the arresting party whose parents had died in Auschwitz following an
order signed by Höss.
The prisoner was torn from the top bunk, the pajamas ripped from his
body. He was then dragged naked to one of the slaughter tables, where
it seemed to Clarke the blows and screams were endless.
Eventually, the Medical Officer urged the Captain: "Call them off,
unless you want to take back a corpse."
A blanket was thrown over Höss and he was dragged to Clarke's car,
where the sergeant poured a substantial slug of whisky down his
throat. Höss tried to sleep.
Clarke thrust his service stick under the man's eyelids and ordered in
Geffnan: "Keep your pig eyes open, you swine."
For the first time Höss trotted out his oft-repeated justification: "I
took my orders from Himmler. I was a soldier in the same way as you
are a soldier and we had to obey orders."
The party arrived back at Heide around three in the morning. The snow
was swirling
still, but the blanket was torn from Höss and he was made to walk
completely nude
through the prison yard to his cell.
</quote>

An article in the British newspaper Wrexham Leader [Mike Mason, "In a
cell with a Nazi war criminal-We kept him awake until he confessed,"
October 17, 1986] following the airing of a TV documentary on the case
of Rudolf Hoess included eyewitness recollections by Ken Jones:
<quote>
Mr. Ken Jones was then a private with the Fifth Royal Horse Artillery
stationed at
Heid[e] in Schleswig-Holstein. "They brought him to us when he
refused to
cooperate over questioning about his activities during the war. He
came in the winter
of 1945/6 and was put in a small jail cell in the barracks," recalls
Mr. Jones. Two
other soldiers were detailed with Mr. Jones to join Höss in his cell
to help break
him down for interrogation. "We sat in the cell with him, night and
day, armed with
axe handles. Our job was to prod him every time he fell asleep to
help break down
his resistance," said Mr. Jones. When Höss was taken out for exercise
he was made
to wear only jeans and a cotton shirt in the bitter cold. After three
days and
nights without sleep, Höss finally broke down and made a full
confession to
the authorities.
</quote>

The confession Hoess signed was numbered document NO-1210; later
revamped, as document PS-3868, which became the basis for an oral
deposition Hoess made for the IMT on April 15, 1946, a month after it
had been extracted from him by torture...
Since what people confess to after they have been captured by the
Communists and their liberal comrades is not proof of anything, this
leaves only the stories of survivors. These contradict each other and
not believable. One professional survivor said that he could tell if
the Germans were gassing German Jews or Polish Jews by the color of
the smoke.
The fact that there are so many "survivors" is not proof of an
extermination plan. There may be six million survivors. Just about
every Jew that is old says he is a survivor.

The real "holocaust" was when the Communist Jews murdered millions of
Christians. Communism was Jewish. Here is proof:

Article Winston Churchill wrote in 1920:
"This movement amongst the Jews (the Russian Revolution) is not new.
From the days of Spartacus Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down
to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kuhn (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany)
and Emma Goldman (United States), this world wide conspiracy for the
overthrow of civilization and the reconstruction of society on the
basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible
equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer,
Mrs. Nesta Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part
in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of
every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at
last this band of extraordinary personalities has gripped the Russian
people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the
undisputed masters of that enormous empire. There is no need to
exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the
actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international
and for the most part atheistic Jews. Moreover, the principal
inspiration and driving power comes from Jewish leaders." (ibid)

Lev Trotzky wrote a book called "Stalin: An Appraisal of the Man and
His Influence", Harper Bros., New York and London, 1941, translated by
Charles Malamuth.

In this book he told who the principle members of the October Central
Committee were. This group was the leadership of the Bolshevik Party
during the October Revolution. This is what he wrote:

"In view of the Party's semi-legality the names of persons elected by
secret ballot were not announced at the Congress, with the exception
of the four who had received the largest number of votes. Lenin--133
out of a possible 134, Zinoviev--132, Kamenev--131, Trotzky--131."

Of these four top leaders of the Bolshevik Party the last three were
known Jews. Lenin was thought to be a gentile married to a Jewess. It
was later proven that he was one quarter Jewish, London Jewish
Chronicle April 21, 1995, Lenin: Life and Legacy.

David Francis, the American Ambassador to Russia at the time of the
Revolution, wrote:
"The Bolshevic leaders here, most of whom are Jews and 90 percent of
whom are returned exiles, care little for Russia or any other country
but are internationalists and they are trying to start a world-wide
revolution."

The Director of British Intelligence to the U.S. Secretary of State
wrote this:
"There is now definite evidence that Bolshevism is an international
movement controlled by Jews."

In 1945 the FBI arrested six individuals for stealing 1700 highly
confidential documents from State Department files. This was the
Amerasia case they were:

Philip Jaffe, a Russian Jew who came to the U.S. in 1905. He was at
one time the editor of the communist paper "Labor Defense" and the
ringleader of the group arrested.
Andrew Roth, a Jew.
Mark Gayn, a Jew, changed his name from Julius Ginsberg.
John Service, a gentile.
Emmanuel Larsen, nationality unknown
Kate Mitchel, nationality unknown.
In 1949 the Jewess Judith Coplin was caught passing classified
documents from Justice Department files to a Russian agent.

The highest ranking communist brought to trial in the U.S. was Gerhart
Eisler. He was a Jew. He was the secret boss of the Communist Party
in the U.S. and commuted regularly between the U.S. and Russia.

In 1950 there was the "Hollywood Ten" case. Ten leading film writers
of the Hollywood Film Colony were convicted for contempt of Congress
and sentenced to prison. Nine of the ten were Jews. Six of the ten
were communist party members and the other four were flagrantly
pro-communist.

One of the top new stories of 1949 was the trial of Eugene Dennis and
the Convicted Eleven. This group comprised the National Secretariat of
the American Communist Party. Six were Jews, two gentiles, three
nationality unknown.

Also in 1949 the German-born atomic scientist Klaus Fuchs was
convicted for passing atomic secrets to the Russians. Acting on
information obtained from Fuchs the FBI arrested nine other members of
the ring. All of them were convicted. Eight of the nine were Jews.

Here are some quotes from a very pro-Jewish book that was first
published in 1925. The book is "Stranger than Fiction" by Lewis
Browne.

"But save for such exceptions, the Jews who led or participated in the
heroic efforts to remold the world of the last century, were neither
Reform or Orthodox. Indeed, they were often not professing Jews at
all.
"For instance, there was Heinrich Heine and Ludwig Borne, both
unfaltering champions of freedom. And even more conspicuously, there
was Karl Marx, one of the great prophetic geniuses of modern times.
"Jewish historians rarely mention the name of this man, Karl Marx,
though in his life and spirit he was far truer to the mission of
Israel than most of those who were forever talking of it. He was born
in Germany in 1818, and belonged to an old rabbinic family. He was not
himself reared as a Jew, however, but while still a child was baptized
a Christian by his father. Yet the rebel soul of the Jew flamed in him
throughout his days, for he was always a 'troubler' in Europe."
"Then, of course, there are Ludwig Borne and Heinrich Heine, two men
who by their merciless wit and sarcasm became leaders among the
revolutionary writers. Karl Marx, Ferdinand Lassalle, Johann Jacoby,
Gabriel Riesser, Adolphe Cremieux, Signora Nathan- all these of Jewish
lineage played important roles in the struggle that went throughout
Europe in this period. Wherever the war for human liberty was being
waged, whether in France, Germany, Austria, Hungary, or Italy, there
the Jew was to be found. It was little wonder that the enemies of
social progress, the monarchists and the Churchmen, came to speak of
the whole liberal movement as nothing but a Jewish plot."

The book "Soviet Russia and the Jews" by Gregor Aronson and published
by the American Jewish League Against Communism, quotes Stalin in an
interview in 1931 with the Jewish Telegraph Agency. Stalin said:

"...Communists cannot be anything but outspoken enemies of
Anti-Semitism. We fight anti-Semites by the strongest methods in the
Soviet Union. Active anti-Semites are punished by death under the
law."

The following quotes are taken directly from documents available from
the
U.S. Archives:
State Department document 861.00/1757 sent May 2, 1918 by U.S. consul
general in Moscow, Summers: "Jews prominent in local Soviet
government, anti-Jewish feeling growing among population...."

State Department document 861.00/2205 was sent from Vladivostok on
July 5, 1918 by U.S. consul Caldwell: "Fifty percent of Soviet
government in each town consists of Jews of the worst type."

From the Headquarters of the American Expeditionary Forces, Siberia on
March 1, 1919, comes this telegram from Omsk by Chief of Staff, Capt.
Montgomery Shuyler: "It is probably unwise to say this loudly in the
United States but the Bolshevik movement is and has been since it's
beginning, guided and controlled by Russian Jews of the greasiest
type" type."

A second Schuyler telegram, dated June 9, 1919 from Vladivostok,
reports on the make-up of the presiding Soviet government: "...(T)here
were 384 'commissars' including 2 negroes, 13 Russians, 15 Chinamen,
22 Armenians, AND MORE THAN 300 JEWS. Of the latter number, 264 had
come to Russia from the United States since the downfall of the
Imperial Government.

The Netherlands' ambassador in Russia, Oudendyke, confirmed this:
"Unless Bolshevism is nipped in the bud immediately, it is bound to
spread in one form or another over Europe and the whole world as it is
organized and worked by Jews who have no nationality, and whose one
object is to destroy for their own ends the existing order of things."

"The Bolshevik revolution in Russia was the work of Jewish brains, of
Jewish dissatisfaction, of Jewish planning, whose goal is to create a
new order in the world. What was performed in so excellent a way in
Russia, thanks to Jewish brains, and because of Jewish dissatisfaction
and by Jewish planning, shall also, through the same Jewish mental an
physical forces, become a reality all over the world." (The American
Hebrew, September 10, 1920 "In the Bolshevik era, 52 percent of the
membership of the Soviet communist party was Jewish, though Jews
comprised only 1.8 percent of the total population." (Stuart Kahan,
The Wolf of the Kremlin, p. 81)

Interestingly, one of the first acts by the Bolsheviks was to make
so-called "anti-Semitism" a capital crime. This is confirmed by Stalin
himself:
"National and racial chauvinism is a vestige of the misanthropic
customs characteristic of the period of cannibalism. Anti-semitism, as
an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige of
cannibalism...under USSR law active anti-Semites are liable to the
death penalty." (Stalin, Collected Works, vol. 13, p. 30).

Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:
"Making an effort to overcome my natural reluctance, I tried to read
articles of this nature published in the Marxist Press; but in doing
so my aversion increased all the more. And then I set about learning
something of the people who wrote and published this mischievous
stuff. From the publisher downwards, all of them were Jews. I
recalled to mind the names of the public leaders of Marxism, and then
I realized that most of them belonged to the Chosen Race- the Social
Democratic representatives in the Imperial Cabinet as well as the
secretaries if the Trades Unions and the street agitators. Everywhere
the same sinister picture presented itself. I shall never forget the
row of names- Austerlitz, David, Adler, Ellonbogen, and others. One
fact became quite evident to me. It was that this alien race held in
its hands the leadership of that Social Democratic Party with whose
minor representatives I had been disputing for months past."

Solzhenitsyn named in his book the six top administrators of the
Soviet death camps. All six of them were Jews.

Here is something the National Socialists wrote:
"The Soviet Union was in fact a paradise for one group: the Jews. Even
at times when for foreign policy reasons Jews were less evident in the
government, or when they ruled through straw men, the Jews were always
visible in the middle and lower levels of the administration."



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